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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#91

Post by davegirdy2 »

korginator wrote: post #30
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

USB-C is simply more convenient to use, and you get it right 100% of the time, instead of your orientation being wrong 50% of the time with USB-A.

I use a docking station to help give me dual monitors on both Mac & Windows. Some monitors don't work in Mac. Maybe I need to get a new docking station.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#92

Post by lxgr »

gattis wrote: post #85
lxgr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> higher mating cycles It’s the other way around. USB-C sockets are much more robust than their A counterparts, since the spring is in the plug for C, as opposed to in the socket for A.

perhaps. but thats why you have the C at the other end because it doesnt make sense to be frequently plugging things in and out of the motherboard and and wearing down those connectors. but i doubt you will get more cycles out of C in real life. that might be what the spec says but given the pitch of the pins on the C connector compared to the A, you have a world of greater tolerance to work with

If you don't frequently plug things into your mainboard, does it even matter?

> but i doubt you will get more cycles out of C in real life

You're free to doubt the designers of the USB specification and/or the manufacturer's compliance with the specification, but just logically, the part about having the springs in the plug, not the port, makes sense to me.

I've seen many broken USB-A ports in airplanes and other public charging ports with the spring connectors bent beyond recognition.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#93

Post by eternityforest »

crote wrote: post #84
eternityforest wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing I don't quite like about active cables is that they didn't use Dallas One-Wire or i2c or uart. Otherwise, it seems to work fine. Hobby level stuff would be a lot simpler if any old microcontroller could talk to a PPS supply, interrogate cables, etc.

I2C or uart would require an additional wire, so that'd be cost-prohibitive. But I do agree that something like One-Wire would be better from a hobbyist perspective. Although probably easy to implement in silicon, USB PD is an absolute nightmare to DIY. Pretty much your only option is to get a dedicated PHY like the FUSB302B to do the actual electronic part of PD comms for you.

Seems like it must not be that easy to implement, or it would already by in all the chips the way CANBus seems to be integrated in tons of stuff.

One-wire stuff is so cheap, and and they have EEPROMS meant for exactly this kind of electronic marking(I believe it's what power adapters did before USB), and it can be done with pure software on an MCU costing pennies.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#94

Post by dboreham »

3np wrote: post #75

USB-C aside, I find that *TX motherboard manufacturers have been too unimaginative when it comes to I/O and haven't evolved for the past ~10y to serve growing demand in new and evolving segments. My pet-peeve: If you want more than a single NIC in an AMD-based small form factor, your options are extremely limited. Even if you're open for importing and paying >$300 for just the board or going a couple of generations b…

You need a PCI card NIC anyway for when Realtek introduces another high throughput triggered bug in their driver and the motherboard NIC becomes useless.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#95

Post by notatoad »

crote wrote: post #70
p1mrx wrote: post #8

USB-C was designed for highly-integrated mobile devices. Motherboard vendors don't want to deal with power delivery and DisplayPort, and users will be confused when that stuff doesn't work. When a USB-C port is out in space, rather than flat on a desk, C-to-A adapters create a lever arm that increases the risk of damage. Though this can be solved by using adapters with ~100mm of wire in the middle.

Motherboard vendors don't need to deal with PD and DisplayPort. USB-C will work just fine without them - it'll just behave like any regular old USB port.

Right, but if they do that then people will complain that their USB-C port isn’t working, or about how USB-C is so confusing because you never know what a port does.

They’ve got a choice between doing nothing and having a few people complain, or doing a bunch of work and spending a bunch of money and still having people complain. One of those is a lot easier.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#96

Post by dylan604 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #11
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

> I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug.. I can confirm, it's a journey. It's the same kind of journey than finding a hair trimmer that charges on USB C. I see it more as makers being complacent and not giving a fuck though. There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. So yes USB A will be there for a while, and more often than n…

> There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great

Except that all of their plans already have USB A in them. They'd have to rework the plans. Then, rework the lines making them. Then they'd have 2 versions for a period of time. Someone in accounting and logistics would have to do more work.

Seems like a perfect time to bring that conversation to a halt with the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" line.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#97

Post by userinanother »

p1mrx wrote: post #87
crote wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motherboard vendors don't need to deal with PD and DisplayPort. USB-C will work just fine without them - it'll just behave like any regular old USB port.

USB-C is like a regular old USB port, with twice the data lanes (or a mux[1]) and a transistor to turn on the power when requested. In other words, it costs more. [1] https://richardg867.wordpress.com/2020/02/29/usb-c-done-chea...

Hence why they have so few

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#98

Post by lxgr »

themerone wrote: post #33
korginator wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C is simply more convenient to use, and you get it right 100% of the time, instead of your orientation being wrong 50% of the time with USB-A.

My pixel slate has a USB-C port that will only charge in one orientation.

That sounds like it's either broken or there's some dust or lint in the plug/cable.

Google is usually pretty good about their USB-C implementations.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#99

Post by lxgr »

amelius wrote: post #90

No matter what devices I use, USB seems to give me a bit error every few terabytes or so, over cheap cables >1ft. This makes me wonder: how do I find good (certified) cables, and why isn't there forward error correction in the USB protocol such that cheap cables simply work?

USB does use error detection (CRC), but if you transfer enough data over anything, you'll eventually see undetected errors.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#100

Post by gruez »

barrkel wrote: post #28
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power Delivery was an addendum to USB 2. It is specified for USB-A ports.

You aren't going to get 20W of fast phone charging power out of USB 2; you get 2.5W tops. USB 3 gets you to about 5W. Meanwhile USB C goes up to 240W. You're probably never going to get that directly out of a motherboard.

>you get 2.5W tops

False. USB-BC allows up to 1.5A, or 15W and doesn't require usb-c

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_battery_charg...

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