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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#651

Post by jfim »

webdood90 wrote: post #435
jfim wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was fun until I got hit by a car when biking back from work. Now I just drive to work due to the risk of injury from distracted drivers and getting doored in bike lanes. It's really unfortunate because I'd rather bike, but the infrastructure in the US even in relatively bike friendly cities here is dangerous.

if you're not already, you should advocate for the infrastructure in your city. these things do not happen on their own, we must push for the future we desire.

That's a good idea. What do you think is a good starting point for this?

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#652

Post by mikrotikker »

uneekname wrote: post #142
willio58 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

I totally agree about the noise and health benefits, but to me it's more a matter of respect and safety. In the U.S., we see too many pedestrians die each year. Our roads are built for cars only, with everything else as an afterthought. When I cross the street, drivers act like it's my responsibility to stay out of their way. If some people need to use cars for mobility or business reasons, that is fine with me. But…

I would personally give way to vehicles of any kind when walking, rather than expect them to give way to me. I have better visibility and awareness, I am easily manueverable and I can stop faster.

I will not put my life in the hands of someone and just hope they see me in order to give way to me. I will take the initiative and be responsible for myself, not require others to be responsible for me... That is called "being a burden".

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#653

Post by fraaancis »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #608

I wonder: why are people using e-bikes and mopeds instead of public transportation? To those bent on removing the ability to use a car from others: are you going to prevent people from using e-bikes and mopeds too?

Public transit is hot garbage in 99% of cities in the US. Bus routes represent a shuttle for moving the poor, elderly, and infirm between various public assistance offices. It won't go away, but it's unlikely to ever be more than that.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#654

Post by agent281 »

pcl wrote: post #118
agent281 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least part of what keeps people from switching to more eco-friendly transportation is the protection arms race: people buy bigger cars because they are safer for their occupants. This leads to more injuries because bigger cars do more damage. Which means people are more concerned about injuries and buy bigger cars. This is one area where I am concerned about the impacts of electric vehicles. They weigh a lot more…

IANA automotive engineer, but I would assume that injuries from car-vs-pedestrian collisions are mostly due to impact velocity, and not due to momentum. I wouldn’t be surprised if the higher-mass electric vehicles are more dangerous to other cars when involved in car-vs-car collisions, though.

IANA automotive engineer either. I'll quote national bureau of economic research:

> The probability of a fatality, conditional on a collision, is 0.19 percent -- or about one in five hundred. The authors find that being hit by a 1,000-pound heavier vehicle results in a 47 percent increase in the baseline probability of being killed in the accident...

https://www.nber.org/digest/nov11/vehicle-weight-and-automot....

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#655

Post by joe_the_user »

jordanbeiber wrote: post #513
joe_the_user wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people "feel" like the chance of an accident driving a car is very high even when it isn't. If you "feel" like theft is very likely when it isn't, that is your problem. And I've had several bike stolen over the years (include being mugged with my bike) and it's taught me to take appropriate precautions to the point I feel fairly safe.

> And I've had several bike stolen over the years (include being mugged with my bike) So, let me get this straight - it’s quite likely a bike gets stolen and this experience, as shared with me, has led you to take precautions. My precaution being not taking the bike some times and to some places. How many times have you have a car stolen over that same time period?

I've had two bikes stolen and one car stolen. I've had other attempts at stealing my bike. I've been in both bike accidents and car accidents over the years as well.

Anyway, your quote was "it feels like 50/50 it’ll get stolen". It just seems problematic mixing what you feel and some objective probability - it's easy to give people the impression the chance of bike theft is actually that. I mean, say "I'm afraid - here are the actual odds..."

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#656

Post by generalizations »

schaefer wrote: post #114
thelastgallon wrote: post #2

We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…

not to get us too far off track, but unicycling is WAY less efficient than walking. For those that have never tried it: it's like trying to go for a jog while maintaining a three-quarters-squat posture.

I’m disappointed they weren’t talking about electric unicycles…I have one of those, and it just feels like skiing. No real effort required.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#657

Post by alberth »

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

Singapore

One approach is to replicate Singapore massive taxation on vehicles, which disincentivizes ownership.

To own a vehicle in Singapore, it costs ~2.5x the normal cost due to taxes.

As such, it has one of the highest uses of public transit, bicycles and walking in the world.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#659

Post by bluGill »

hot_gril wrote: post #599
estebank wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SF has bus-only lanes everywhere. I wouldn't say everywhere, but wherever they were introduced they reduced travel time significantly, and traffic in those corridors didn't get any worse. The 38AX became redundant after the Geary bus lane because the 38R is just as fast. > The only way driving ever ends up being less convenient is if there's constrained parking. It's just very hard to beat a car that can go directl…

> Paradoxically it also means that improving transit travel times also improves driving times. This is part of what I'm saying. If mass transit is improved, more people use it, so driving is still faster. > There Venn diagram of people that want walkable cities and better transit might as well be a circle. Walkable city works well with public transit along longer and simpler routes, like between cities or cross-town…

As transit gets good people start to realize they don't need to drive so they don't even if they could. Yes driving gets easier, but transit should stand well even in the face of little traffic

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#660

Post by bluGill »

throwaheyy wrote: post #502
bluGill wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure it is more densely packed? Where I live the streetcar suburbs are slightly less dense than modern suburbs. In the 1950s lot sizes went up, but they have mostly come down again. (streetcar suburbs were built assuming you would get some food from your garden. 1950's suburbs were built by/for people who remembered the depression and wanted a large lot for a garden - or that is my theory.

Streetcar suburbs are not 1950s suburbs, they are 1900s-1930s suburbs. 1950s suburbs are car suburbs.

Right, we have all 3, and they have different forms. 1950s is the least dense.
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