Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

theconversation.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 756 posts

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#271

Post by Moldoteck »

radium3d wrote: post #108
underbluewaters wrote: post #56

I feel lucky every single day that I can take a 10 minute e-bike ride into the office. I say lucky because I know it's not available to everyone, but it's so good for my mental health to get outside every morning and afternoon. That experience can't be replicated with a Tesla no matter how affordable they might become.

Yeah, e-bikes are great for good weather and living within 5 miles of your office. Tesla's are great for the rest and they do have windows at least for those of us who have to commute. And at least the 132MPGe of a model 3 is better than a gas powered motorcycle.

Take Netherlands: look how bad weather they have, almost constant wind&rain and still ppl bike a lot. They also have trains for longer distance. Typically a dutch will have 2 bikes: bike from home to train station&leave it there, take train, take second bike from train destination to the work and reverse. It's about what you want to optimize: sprawl&car industry or the opposite

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#272

Post by epistasis »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #184
tfrutuoso wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very elitist. Not everyone lives in large cities with whole mass transit systems or works the usual 9-5. Even in large urban areas it's tricky to get around past a certain time. I remember working unexpected shifts and later staring at closed metro stations, having to walk in the rain to get home. No thanks. Also, some people like cars. Deal with it, i'm not ditching for an e-bike or whatever. An electric moto…

The $20k car is not elitist but the $2k ebike is? Interesting.

It's always hilarious to me when people driving $60k vehicles ask me how much the ebike cost and say "that's expensive". The ebike costs less than they pay in insurance a year, much less maintenance, gas, etc.

Some people have weird ideas about cars being "for regular people" while any money spent on a bicycle is a luxury.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#273

Post by david-gpu »

kibwen wrote: post #195
simmanian wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that depends on local laws. depending on where you live, it may be illegal to ride high speed ebikes in the first place.

Beyond a certain speed, full-face helmets become a practical matter rather than merely a safety or legal matter. Can't hear with the wind rushing in your ears, can't see with the wind in your eyes.

> Can't hear with the wind rushing in your ears.

Some cyclists use a product called Cat-Ears. It's just some synthetic fur that attaches to the helmet straps akin to having some sick sideburns. It works great.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#274

Post by cogman10 »

tomtheelder wrote: post #215
cogman10 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, lots of anti-battery stuff is propaganda pretending like we still drive around with NiCd batteries. Even the weight argument is wrong! A model Y weighs up to 4,555 lbs. A Ford edge weighs up to 4520 lbs. As it turns out, ICE are really super heavy. Strip that out and have a steadily increasing battery density as we've seen over the years and it really won't be long before EVs are in fact lighter than ICE counter…

The weight thing is absolutely real. You can’t just compare two completely different cars! Equivalent models usually gain a few hundred pounds in the EV version.

The ford edge is the same class of car as a Tesla model y. They are, in fact, the same dimensions (off by and inch or two). I chose it specifically because it's an equivalent model.

If you want to complain, you should be pointing out the fact that I used the model y, which is (currently) best in class for EV weight. That's primarily due to Tesla's use of the battery as a structural component.

Equivalent cars from the same companies are often gaining hundreds of pounds (or more) because they are using the same platform as their ICE counterparts rather than using a more obvious skateboard design. The older ford focus being one of the worst examples of this.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#275

Post by jfim »

Glide wrote: post #208
dv_dt wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an interesting comment to me because it gets so much right on how to motivate ditching cars. If you were funding a campaign to eliminate cars to reduce carbon emissions I think you would meet with widespread resistance. If you promote an idea of a higher quality life that is possible w/o cars and explore that - in the end I think you'd end up removing many more cars than the first approach.

It's a positive vision of where society can go rather than having to sacrifice and buckle down. Do people not remember riding bikes as kids? Riding a bike is _still_ fun. It never stopped being fun. Now you can do that and get to work.

It was fun until I got hit by a car when biking back from work. Now I just drive to work due to the risk of injury from distracted drivers and getting doored in bike lanes.

It's really unfortunate because I'd rather bike, but the infrastructure in the US even in relatively bike friendly cities here is dangerous.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#276

Post by abeppu »

davidw wrote: post #239
ubermonkey wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. I feel like this indicates you do not live in a very hot & humid place. That sounds wonderful, to be sure, but in Houston summer a 1.5 mile trip to the grocery store on any kind of ebike would definitely require a change of clothes & a shower once done.

I feel this indicates you do not understand how an eBike functions. You can get on one and simply turn the throttle or set the pedal assist to the max, and poof instant breeze with no effort. It is cooler than just standing there. I lived in northern Italy for a while so I get 'hot and humid' although I'm sure it's another level in Houston.

Houston isn't _consistently_ in this territory, but it is worth a reminder that if the ambient temperature is above body temp and the air is humid enough, then a breeze makes you hotter faster.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#277

Post by riversflow »

notatoad wrote: post #211
tfrutuoso wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very elitist. Not everyone lives in large cities with whole mass transit systems or works the usual 9-5. Even in large urban areas it's tricky to get around past a certain time. I remember working unexpected shifts and later staring at closed metro stations, having to walk in the rain to get home. No thanks. Also, some people like cars. Deal with it, i'm not ditching for an e-bike or whatever. An electric moto…

nothing about living in a city or riding a bike instead of driving a car is "elitist". elitism is using a vehicle that has an average annual ownership cost of $12000 and takes up a parking space everywhere you want to go.

> average annual ownership cost of $12000

Lots of people buy luxury cars, driving up that figure, so it hardly matters when we are talking about marginal utility for someone, shall we say, disadvantaged. Which I’m guessing you’ve never been?

My annual cost of ownership on my car is like $2500. I can sleep in my car too, and store clothes and food securely in it. Oh and get on demand heat & A/C access.

If you don’t have much, having a car is a lot.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#278

Post by Moldoteck »

vikramkr wrote: post #87
k_dumez wrote: post #17

"In the United States, a staggering 60% of all car trips cover less than 10km." Being lucky enough to live in a walkable city (NYC) this is insane to me. The world is so car-brained.

Uhh, 10 kilometers is a LOT. I would not walk 6.2 miles for groceries. Or to work. Or to most things frankly

Lol neither dutch bike that long. Bikes are good for 5-7kms, >10 is already a stretch and ppl use bike+train combo or just straight up bus/tram

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#279

Post by bluGill »

pcl wrote: post #118
agent281 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least part of what keeps people from switching to more eco-friendly transportation is the protection arms race: people buy bigger cars because they are safer for their occupants. This leads to more injuries because bigger cars do more damage. Which means people are more concerned about injuries and buy bigger cars. This is one area where I am concerned about the impacts of electric vehicles. They weigh a lot more…

IANA automotive engineer, but I would assume that injuries from car-vs-pedestrian collisions are mostly due to impact velocity, and not due to momentum. I wouldn’t be surprised if the higher-mass electric vehicles are more dangerous to other cars when involved in car-vs-car collisions, though.

Smaller cars are more likely to throw you up and over - still dangerous, but not as dangerous as a direct inelastic hit. Smaller cars have better visibility of pedestrians and so are more likely to see and thus avoid pedestrians.

If you take a direct hit with even a tiny car at faster than 30mph you are dead. However smaller cars make it somewhat less likely you take that direct hit.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#280

Post by svnt »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #171
cedws wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are selfish and DGAF. They will continue to buy the latest and biggest Range Rovers and Ford trucks (pedestrian death machines) to take their kids to school because they desperately need to signal how well off they are. Cars are a disgustingly polluting outlet for people to show off. IMO we should be banning big cars, possibly even legislating new cars are no bigger than a Japanese "Kei" car. Speed restriction…

So we need to invent an alternative visible and expensive status symbol. Back to gold watches?

Electric palanquins.
Post reply on HN