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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#481

Post by JAlexoid »

FredPret wrote: post #448
estebank wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone who has ever been on a bus, and who has the money to never get on a bus again, buses are a non-starter. Feel free to elaborate, because that's not a universal position.

You ever been on a bus with a raving lunatic? Wiled away the hours as the bus chugs along circuitously to a point that is not quite at your destination? Tried to carry heavy shopping on a bus? Walked to a bus stop through bad weather? Taken one mode of transport that was delayed, making you miss the next leg? Waited forever for a bus that never comes? Public transport sucks balls. In the world's densest, biggest citi…

There's a world of difference between having to use a car every day of the week to do literally anything (as the case with multiple suburban areas) and using it for it's intended purpose of hauling things.

Having a lunatic on the bus is hardly an excuse to force everyone to use cars and the systematic destruction of walkable human scale neighborhoods.

But sure. Let's abolish all public transit just because sometimes there are lunatics. US had a raving lunatic as a president, we definitely should abolish US.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#482

Post by JumpCrisscross »

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

> only problem that self-driving cars will ever solve is where to put VC money in a zero interest rate world. We've had freight trains and mass transit for centuries.

Wouldn’t write these off so quickly. I know two people who ditched their cars in Phoenix, one of whom went car free, because of Waymo. (By analogy: without cabs and Ubers, many more New Yorkers would have a car parked in an outer borough.)

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#483

Post by thepasswordis »

I became very disillusioned with my “eco conscious” friends when they all went so hard against the bird scooters. These seemed like such an obvious and amazing solution to having too many gas powered cars in the road.

The cost was very low, the distance you could travel was high, and they were everywhere. This seemed like such a massive ray of hope.

When people started throwing them in the water, or damaging them intentionally it really made me question what their actual motivations were.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#485

Post by bluGill »

FredPret wrote: post #448
estebank wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone who has ever been on a bus, and who has the money to never get on a bus again, buses are a non-starter. Feel free to elaborate, because that's not a universal position.

You ever been on a bus with a raving lunatic? Wiled away the hours as the bus chugs along circuitously to a point that is not quite at your destination? Tried to carry heavy shopping on a bus? Walked to a bus stop through bad weather? Taken one mode of transport that was delayed, making you miss the next leg? Waited forever for a bus that never comes? Public transport sucks balls. In the world's densest, biggest citi…

None of those problems you name are inherent in a bus though. Those are common problems with buses, but they don't have to be. A bus should not "chugs along circuitously to a point that is not quite at your destination" - design a better network. A bus should stop so close to where you shop that it is easier than carting that stuff to your car. A bus stop should not be so far away that bad weather is a problem. You should never miss your next leg because the next leg bus is never long in coming. The bus should always come.

The only part of your list that your transit agency shouldn't solve are the raving lunatic. This is easy to solve though as there are not many raving lunatics in the world and so the number of not lunatics riding great transit means they are rare (and there are plenty of others to help deal with them when they get on).

Running great transit costs a lot more $$$ than most transit agencies get though, so they make the best of what money they have. (not really - most waste a lot of money on things that do not make for great transit, but even if they spent everything perfect they don't have anywhere near enough money to run great transit)

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#486

Post by UtopiaPunk »

jfim wrote: post #275
Glide wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a positive vision of where society can go rather than having to sacrifice and buckle down. Do people not remember riding bikes as kids? Riding a bike is _still_ fun. It never stopped being fun. Now you can do that and get to work.

It was fun until I got hit by a car when biking back from work. Now I just drive to work due to the risk of injury from distracted drivers and getting doored in bike lanes. It's really unfortunate because I'd rather bike, but the infrastructure in the US even in relatively bike friendly cities here is dangerous.

That's so frustrating and I'm sorry.

The USA is the richest country in the world, but our biking infrastructure is worse than third-world countries. Not only is the bike infrastrcute inadequate and with many gaps, but what does exist is frequently designed to mix with a mode of transportation that is actively hostile to biking.

I hope you find a way to bike again. Biking alongside cars is so stressful and dangerous, but biking along a safe route is so enjoyable.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#487

Post by lepus »

vbeeaz wrote: post #377
lepus wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But my man, there's a thing called an electric car and you said a "war on cars". Be more specific if you're actually saying there's a "war on GAS cars".

Electric cars cost like double what a normal car costs, thus making sure only the wealthy can afford to drive one, while the plebs can get around in public transportation or whatever.

The average cost of a new gas powered car is about $48k in the United States and the average cost of a new electric car is about $53k. Neither is affordable but used Nissan Leafs are available in the sub $10k range. Anything else you forgot to mention?

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#488

Post by lifeisstillgood »

so I have a mental model I wanted to share. I hope it's simple.

Imagine the 80/20 rule - we all know it. It's simple. 80% of the good stuff comes from 20% of the effort. 80% of the value society gets from journies comes from 20% of the actual journies. Doctors driving to hospital, farmers driving food to market etc.

Now repeat the 80% rule on the remaining 80% of journeys - and we find that 16% of the value we get comes from just 16% of the effort.

So we can argue that 96% of the value society gets comes from 36% of journeys- basically 2/3 of all we do is just crap.

So how do we find ways to replace 2/3 of the effort

much more public transport is the first take.

Reduced door to door deliveries perhaps (I mean is a deliveroo starbucks a good idea?)

but then we hit the big infrastructure stuff - denser housing (ala strilong towns) and yes, spend energy moving humans but not a ton of metal around the human.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#489

Post by bluGill »

ponector wrote: post #395
Muromec wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I though you are talking about a village with 200 residents, so I had to look it up and oops, it's quarter million city? You gotta be kidding.

Yes, that is funny to read. European cities with population less than 100k could have public transport and bicycle infrastructure while much bigger American city could not.

There are American cities of less than 100k people that have public transport and bicycle infrastructure. However nobody knows about them.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#490

Post by geraldwhen »

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

My work requires me to come to office on certain days. Not only are there no sidewalks to the office, the roads are egregiously unsafe even in a car. Even if a moped or bike were feasible, there’s nowhere to live within any reasonable distance. The office is isolated on the big acreage it purchased.

If I could, I would bike a half hour to work, easily. I can’t. It’s just not safe. Everything is built for big, fast cars.

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