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Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

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Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#131

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

sisve wrote: post #117
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #74

Recent blog post about unions that I found interesting: >Let’s say a nation is concerned about poverty. So it passes a law that says the rich will have some of their money redistributed to the poor. But instead of a progressive income tax used to fund cash payments to the unfortunate, the government decides that wealthy people who happened to be born in the spring will give their money to poor people whose birthdays…

Sorry, but I think you are way of here. I live in Norway, and as far as I know the reason for the immigration problems in sweden is mostly related to taking in a lot of immgrants, much more then other countries did (compared to swedens population) over a long period and then failing to integrated them. Basically creating ghettos. In addition to this the government was to slow with providing additional resources when…

"Failing to integrate them" could be because they struggled to find jobs, due to unions acting as a cartel and shutting competitors out of the labor market.

If Norway accepted fewer immigrants, that means that fewer jobs for immigrants are needed. If you accept a lot of immigrants, you'd like to have employment opportunities for _all_ of them. Unionization could cause this problem by lowering demand for unskilled workers, who are no longer profitable to hire due to union bargaining.

If jobs for immigrants were plentiful, maybe government support wouldn't be necessary.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#132

Post by banannaise »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #126
simlevesque wrote: post #3

Good for them. I love to see workers uniting. In this increasingly globalized world, each country is still different. You can't expect swedish workers to accept that you treat them like american workers just because your company is big. I really like this part: > Even postal workers will stop delivering mail to Tesla

[flagged]

No, it's good for workers to unite, even if it's for stupid reasons. The argument is against the reasons, not the uniting.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#133

Post by simlevesque »

freeopinion wrote: post #124
simlevesque wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The workers want it. Their laws say they have a right to it. There's no arguing past that. Let me ask you a question: why do you deserve any respect ? I'm just curious. I'm not seriously asking, just showing you how your question is bullshit.

I wasn't asking in an anti-union stance. I'm actually curious. Of course I understand the general purpose of a labor union. But I also understand that there are many situations where a union is unnecessary and actually detrimental to the labor force. For example, if I pay all my employees the same wage I make and pay for the same insurance and retirement plan I have, would it be beneficial to my employees to join a u…

> For example, if I pay all my employees the same wage I make and pay for the same insurance and retirement plan I have, would it be beneficial to my employees to join a union?

Two questions:

How would you know that everyone has the same ? Only the boss knows without a union.

Also, if everyone has the same retirement and insurance plan but they are not good plans or the pay isn't good, are they not getting ripped off ?

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#134

Post by sroussey »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #77
AlexandrB wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Blackrock? Their representatives sit on many boards in a single industry. Same with large VCs. It's not as structured as unions, but each board is not a completely independent entity either.

> What about Blackrock? This is actually a good point, and is detrimental for similar reasons: concentration of power, reduction of competition and increased fragility of the whole system ("too big to fail").

Actually, BlackRock is incentivized to have the whole system be healthy.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#135

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mrtksn wrote: post #127
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's really out of topic since we are discussing public markets You said the market cap is “undefined.” That is incorrect. Market cap is price per share times shares outstanding. If a company has shares, its market cap is defined by at least one among several metrics.

I agree, you are technically correct which is the best kind of correct I guess but it's irrelevant IMHO.

It’s actually fundamentally germane to your argument, since in private markets one doesn’t have “large market cap changes because what you are observing is just live betting.” What input you use as “price” is the relevant bit, with the CNBC reductive convention of price = last trade being the source of your problem, not market cap per se.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#136

Post by whalesalad »

surgical_fire wrote: post #110
whalesalad wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, that is epic. On the other hand, it means the union has leached a monumental amount of capital out of the workers and industries they are involved with. A union should not have that much cash in the bank.

> leached We should use this term more often against the corporations exploiting the workers. I am somewhat ambivalent towards unions - they can sometimes be a blessing or a curse to the workers. It really needs some regulation to ensure they serve the workers rather than serving the ones willing to play union politics. But I am not at all ambivalent on corporations. Their only mandate is profit, and they will exploi…

What I mean is that having a runway where your union members can do literally nothing for 500 years and continue to get paid would suggest there is a monumental amount of cash sitting in a bank. I agree that unions need a rainy day fund, but this seems egregious. If they had said 10 or 20 years, that would make more sense to me.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#137

Post by epgui »

simlevesque wrote: post #68
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not insulting people that disagree with you and need the work is a good reason. Even as a frenchmen, I don't think strikes are sacred.

[flagged]

I think I’m very pro-worker/pro-littleguy/pro-union but I don’t think this makes sense at all.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#138

Post by simlevesque »

Beached wrote: post #87
simlevesque wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

hardly call it stealing. they decided to no longer work for the previously agreed upon compensation package. the employer found new employees that would do the work they need done. no one stole anything. I agree and encourage unions and collective bargaining, but a strike breaker is hardly a thief, they are just a worker who needs money like the guy striking

> they are just a worker who needs money like the guy striking

I need a house and you do too. Let me live in your house since we both need it.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#139

Post by dragonwriter »

JohnFen wrote: post #104
dragonwriter wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A contract violation is not a violation of law. False; contract law is, as the name suggests, law, and there are legally established remedies for violations.

I think we may be running into the weeds of pedantry here, but here goes... (Speaking about how things are in the US. I don't know how they are elsewhere.) Contract law is about how to interpret and adjudicate contracts when there is a dispute between the parties in the contract. Nothing about that means that violating a contract, in and of itself, is illegal. You aren't going to suffer any criminal penalties for fai…

> Nothing about that means that violating a contract, in and of itself, is illegal..

Its a violation of legal rights for which there are legal remedies. Claiming that its not a violation of law (the original upthread claim) is... well, as wrong as it is for any other violation of civil law. (“illegal" adds more complications because “illegal” has multiple overlapping senses, it can apply to any violation of law, or it can be used to refer specifically to criminal violations.)

> What you may do is suffer whatever penalties that the contract specifies will happen if the contract is violated

No, contract law itself specifies penalties for contract violations. Contracts may attempt to specify damages for certain violations as a replacement for the usual calculation of actual damages (“liquidated damages” provisions), but contract law governs when these will be given effect instead of the usual assessment of actual damages. It is neither necessary for there to be a specified penalty in the contract for one to be applied, nor will a specified penalty automatically be applied.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#140

Post by lotsofpulp »

simlevesque wrote: post #68
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not insulting people that disagree with you and need the work is a good reason. Even as a frenchmen, I don't think strikes are sacred.

[flagged]

Businesses and individuals should not be able to sell their products and services at different prices than competing businesses and individuals.
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