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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#451

Post by webdood90 »

cbozeman wrote: post #326
epistasis wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always hilarious to me when people driving $60k vehicles ask me how much the ebike cost and say "that's expensive". The ebike costs less than they pay in insurance a year, much less maintenance, gas, etc. Some people have weird ideas about cars being "for regular people" while any money spent on a bicycle is a luxury.

I can't carry four other people on my ebike, along with stuffing a minimum of one duffle bag per person, and usually being able to squeeze two in, along with a cooler for drinks, snacks, and sandwiches. My Telluride can do that though. Even if I could somehow fit all that shit onto an ebike, I wonder how long it and I would be able to make it before we give trying to go the 125 miles from Fort Worth to Possum Kingdom…

> This site infuriates me sometimes at the complete and utter lack of understanding of most of the United States

Most of the US in what capacity? Square miles? Because the majority of the population lives in Cities.

I love reading comments like yours. All throughout this thread you've vehemently argued that your perspective is the right one.

It's a reminder to me that close minded people like you actually exist! You're not here to discuss, you're here to argue. That's pretty unfortunate.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#452

Post by NegativeLatency »

Moldoteck wrote: post #234
ravenstine wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe That's incredible! Now show us some evidence.

Evidence like total cost of car infra vs taxes that ppl pay? Evidence that low density areas are subsidized by high density? All this info is freely available online. Difference is US can afford to be in debt, other countries - not so much

Don't forget the bit where many cities are running in the red (existing infra costs more to maintain than it nets in taxes), but they "make it up on growth" by continually expanding

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#453

Post by NegativeLatency »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #207
thegrim22 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when 20 years ago if anybody had doubts with the way things were heading we were told "there's no war on cars you conspiracy theorist, nobody's going to come for your cars you conspiracy theorist"? After 20 years they've made enough progress shaping the narrative that they no longer need to lie and hide their agenda they can just put it in the open.

Remember n years ago when people thought their lifestyles would have no consequences for the future of industrial civilisation? Anyway building more and good public transport so cars don't have to be used nearly as much is an incredibly good thing.

Better yet, make it so I can just walk to the thing that I want to do

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#454

Post by UtopiaPunk »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #295
Glide wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a positive vision of where society can go rather than having to sacrifice and buckle down. Do people not remember riding bikes as kids? Riding a bike is _still_ fun. It never stopped being fun. Now you can do that and get to work.

Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

Riding a bicycle as a primary form of transportation isn't for everyone. But it is for some people today. By building safer bicycle paths, cycling can work for more people tomorrow. And by advancing technologies and subsidies, e-bikes can open up cycling to more people still.

Even if cycling is a thing that some people only do in pleasant weather, individuals and society benefit from more people cycling and less people driving cars.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#455

Post by bborud »

radium3d wrote: post #108
underbluewaters wrote: post #56

I feel lucky every single day that I can take a 10 minute e-bike ride into the office. I say lucky because I know it's not available to everyone, but it's so good for my mental health to get outside every morning and afternoon. That experience can't be replicated with a Tesla no matter how affordable they might become.

Yeah, e-bikes are great for good weather and living within 5 miles of your office. Tesla's are great for the rest and they do have windows at least for those of us who have to commute. And at least the 132MPGe of a model 3 is better than a gas powered motorcycle.

ebikes work in pretty much any kind of weather provided you have a proper bicycle, proper tyres and know how to dress. None of the gear has to be expensive. It just has to be suitable.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#456

Post by nfriedly »

candiddevmike wrote: post #250
nfriedly wrote: post #235

My wife and I got an electric cargo bike with seating on the back for both kids this summer, and we love it. We jokingly call it our "mini van" and we've put ~170 miles on it, many of which would have been (gas) car trips otherwise. Initially I pedaled a non-electric bike when all four of us wanted to go somewhere, but after a month or so we got a second (non-cargo) ebike.

What bike did you get?

The first one was a RadWagon 4 - https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radwagon-electric-car... - with a lot of accessories, so it looks a bit more like the "Everyone Pile In Kit" here: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/bike-customizer?pid=4584...

Second was an Aventure.2 - https://www.aventon.com/products/aventure2-step-through-ebik...

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#457

Post by epistasis »

itsoktocry wrote: post #338
epistasis wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always hilarious to me when people driving $60k vehicles ask me how much the ebike cost and say "that's expensive". The ebike costs less than they pay in insurance a year, much less maintenance, gas, etc. Some people have weird ideas about cars being "for regular people" while any money spent on a bicycle is a luxury.

> The ebike costs less than they pay in insurance a year, much less maintenance, gas, etc. Let me just get on my eBike and cruise the streets in the 4+ months we have snow, and 6+ months it's cold. We don't all live in California.

You don't even address a single aspect of my comment.

Why is my cheaper bike a "luxury" while it allows me to save tons of money in insurance and gas, while the elitist in a super expensive car considers a very practical piece of gear a luxury?

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#458

Post by 1323portloo »

The average American is not going to accept an e-bike, moped or motorcycle as a replacement for their SUV/wheeled living room.* Autocycles are starting to become more mainstream thanks to companies like Polaris that focus on performance ATVs and 3-wheeled motorcycles. They would be a good middle ground for the future, either as electric or small-displacement gas engines.

They need better penetration in more states and need to have the same insurance and operator licensing as a regular 4-wheeled automobile. My state allows autocycles where you can use a regular drivers license, but the vehicle is insured as a motorcycle (higher premiums), you must wear a helmet (but my autocycle has an enclosed body?). One of the states that borders mine does not permit autocycles as an automobile, so I wouldn't be able to drive there for any reason.

* For years I have bicycle commuted and picked up groceries year-round in a place with hills that gets real winter snow. It takes a level of commitment that most people just do not have.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#459

Post by em500 »

cornholio wrote: post #185
camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

There is a little something that's missing from the analysis above: what people actually want. And what many people want, across many cultures once they reach a certain level of wealth, is the suburban home: low density living in isolated housing units set in a park like environment with ample greenery. Just look at almost any billionaire's mansion and you will see this pattern which becomes an aspiration for the mid…

> Just look at almost any billionaire's mansion and you will see this pattern which becomes an aspiration for the middle class. Most people, given enough wealth, desire and choose the McMansion.

Billionaires tend to have lots of houses, including condos in Manhattan and London. And probably a yacht too. Not sure if we can derive a lot about general housing preferences from that.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#460

Post by bluGill »

mdgrech23 wrote: post #429
willio58 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on a street that used to have a streetcar line on it! Now it's just a stroad and traffic monstrosity but I sometimes daydream of hopping on the streetcar and going to meet up with friends downtown.

I'm in the suburbs but like you an older one and more densely packed. I'm maybe a mile from a major highway that goes to the city center. It's dead straight and major thoroughfare. If they dedicated one line to rail, none of that mixed BS, and had stops say every mile into the city my god it would be amazing.

Are you sure it is more densely packed? Where I live the streetcar suburbs are slightly less dense than modern suburbs. In the 1950s lot sizes went up, but they have mostly come down again. (streetcar suburbs were built assuming you would get some food from your garden. 1950's suburbs were built by/for people who remembered the depression and wanted a large lot for a garden - or that is my theory.
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