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Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

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Re: Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

#21

Post by coolbreezetft22 »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #10
xwdv wrote: post #3

I still feel Final Fantasy 6 was the best JRPG of the retro era. At the time it had heavy themes you wouldn’t expect a child to grapple with: the ideas that the good guys can just straight up lose and having to live with the consequences, characters whose arcs may never truly be redeemed (because they can fucking die ), and even complex issues like the passing of loved ones, committing suicide when all hope is lost,…

I genuinely agree, especially for gamers of my particular demographic who knew Final Fantasy VI as "Final Fantasy III". I would like to point out, though, that there are plenty of games that the English-speaking world didn't get, at least not on their initial release, and there is one in particular that I want to highlight here as I don't see it get the fanfare I think its owed. That game is Dragon Quest V, which tak…

Playing FF VI for the first time right now having wanted to play it for past two decade and loving it. Also played Earthbound for the first time earlier this year and agree with this sentiment. The music was also amazing

Re: Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

#22

Post by mjr00 »

spinningD20 wrote: post #20
xwdv wrote: post #3

I still feel Final Fantasy 6 was the best JRPG of the retro era. At the time it had heavy themes you wouldn’t expect a child to grapple with: the ideas that the good guys can just straight up lose and having to live with the consequences, characters whose arcs may never truly be redeemed (because they can fucking die ), and even complex issues like the passing of loved ones, committing suicide when all hope is lost,…

Your mentioning of "rape" here sent me on a google journey... I don't remember anything like that happening or even being hinted at in FF6, what are you referring to?

I assume they mean the first scene with Celes in South Figaro where she's being tortured. Rape isn't mentioned or even implied, in either Japanese or English, though.

Re: Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

#24

Post by jamie_ca »

spinningD20 wrote: post #20
xwdv wrote: post #3

I still feel Final Fantasy 6 was the best JRPG of the retro era. At the time it had heavy themes you wouldn’t expect a child to grapple with: the ideas that the good guys can just straight up lose and having to live with the consequences, characters whose arcs may never truly be redeemed (because they can fucking die ), and even complex issues like the passing of loved ones, committing suicide when all hope is lost,…

Your mentioning of "rape" here sent me on a google journey... I don't remember anything like that happening or even being hinted at in FF6, what are you referring to?

On the one hand there's Setzer "Let me swoop in on my airship to kidnap a beautiful opera singer" that was not likely to end in just a coffee date.

On the other hand, no way in hell does someone like Kefka invent something called a Slave Crown and then just use it to force someone to pilot a magic mecha.

Re: Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

#26

Post by hotnfresh »

krapp wrote: post #19
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a young child grapple with rape, slitting mothers throat for money, suicide, gambling addiction, rape, genicide, etc? You arent majing a very good pitch for this being a family fruendly game...

> Why should a young child grapple with rape, slitting mothers throat for money, suicide, gambling addiction, rape, genicide, etc? Have you read most faerie tales, or Bible stories for that matter? Or watched children's television? Or grown up in a less than perfect household? These are simply the themes of real life, and only rare privilege allows one to reach adolescence blissfully ignorant of life's sharp edges. B…

Mass ecological devastation in the name of profit, complete with displacement of animals and the explicit suggestion that they might die as a result (The Lorax)

A sensitive individual takes seriously pleas for help from a vulnerable population at risk of being wiped out, while others mock the individual’s concerns as fake, and actively endanger the same population, echoing Western reactions to persecution of Jews and eventually the Holocaust in the lead-up to and during much of WWII (Horton Hears a Who)

Re: Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

#27

Post by haunter »

>Unfortunately, I don’t know of a similarly easy and legal way to play the Dragon Quest games today.

As far as english releases goes:

I, II, III, IV, V, VI, and VIII have been released for Android and iOS. There is no landscape mode and no controller support but they are still very much playable. Apart from VIII which is a 3D game and the portrait mode is very iffy, serviceable but not great at all. But as far as legality goes that's the only english digital release.

I, II, III are on Switch.

Re: Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

#28

Post by spinningD20 »

jamie_ca wrote: post #24
spinningD20 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your mentioning of "rape" here sent me on a google journey... I don't remember anything like that happening or even being hinted at in FF6, what are you referring to?

On the one hand there's Setzer "Let me swoop in on my airship to kidnap a beautiful opera singer" that was not likely to end in just a coffee date. On the other hand, no way in hell does someone like Kefka invent something called a Slave Crown and then just use it to force someone to pilot a magic mecha.

This is not explicitly stating that it is rape by any means, and I don't interpret it that way. It seemed to me that Maria and Setzer had a history already and he was stealing her away from her opera life, which she may or may not have wanted, we are not told whether or not she even wanted to work at the opera house, or what those conditions were. Casting characters in these negative lights without explicit proof is just silly. Especially after you get the backstory on Setzer and his love interest - nothing else in the game paints him as character that would do something awful like that.

The grounds for "FF6 has rape in it!" seems super super shaky. It feels like the sort of thing where people are decided that Satsuki & Mae from Totoro are really "dead and ghosts" during the entirety of the movie. It's silly.

Don't scare people away from a classic for things that aren't true.

Re: Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

#29

Post by RHSeeger »

krapp wrote: post #23

Counterpoint: "The JRPG label has always been othering[0]," by Kazuma Hashimoto[1] [0] https://www.polygon.com/23677598/jrpg-label-history-othering... [1] https://twitter.com/JusticeKazzy_

> For us as Japanese developers, the first time we heard it, it was like a discriminatory term, as though we were being made fun of for creating these games, and so for some developers, the term can be something that will maybe trigger bad feelings because of what it was in the past,

I'm curious when that was because, having played RPGs on various systems since they first existed, I don't recall ever having it been considered negative; just another style. I don't mean to discount his feelings about the term/issue at all; he (and those he associated with) clearly felt that way. I just find it interesting that there's such a disconnect there.

Re: Putting the "J" in the RPG, Part 1: Dorakue

#30

Post by jstarfish »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #16
jstarfish wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Earthbound as a curiously mature JRPG for the time. I like to cite it as an example of a game that is more about the journey than the destination. I could never put my finger on what made that game so compelling. The "Yakuza: Like a Dragon" game had a similar vibe. The working title for it might as well have been "Friendship is Magic." > making sure to stop and take a coffee break every now and then The lesson you…

> The lesson you were supposed to take away from it was to stop and call your dad every now and then. That's a good catch, thanks! I also think the dad was intended to be a commentary on Japanese salaryman culture, and now that I'm older, from the dad's perspective I see another lesson about all the things you might miss if you spend all your time working.

> dad was intended to be a commentary on Japanese salaryman culture, [...] lesson about all the things you might miss if you spend all your time working.

Totally. Check out a few episodes of the "Old Enough" show on Netflix and you'll see the same; dad/mom is stuck running the restaurant while the kid goes on the epic errand. Adults have responsibilities and it was touching that the game respected that instead of vilifying him as an "absentee" parent. Childhood is your journey; your parents are just there to provide air support.

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