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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#381

Post by slothtrop »

soperj wrote: post #223
ackfoobar wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many aspects to the word "efficiency". Space efficiency - how wide it takes to reach a certain throughput - train wins Time efficiency - how much time it takes to get from point A to point B - barring traffic, car wins Energy efficiency - how much energy it takes - bike wins Your argument is just as strong without the subjective ranking of efficiency.

Majority of my time commuting the bike wins every time, mostly because I'm commuting at the same time as everyone else.

Good for you. Doesn't describe everyone else.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#382

Post by superb_dev »

nicoburns wrote: post #139
r00fus wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest frustration with bikes here in the US is the lack of security in high traffic areas. The fact that law enforcement doesn't seem to care about stolen bikes is a huge hurdle in my desire to bike to the store, leave alone paying thousands for a decent e-bike that I'd be even more worried about. I say this as an avid cyclist.

You should be able to get bike insurance. I pay £7/month to insure mine, which is lot cheaper than car insurance!

Also if you don’t have bike insurance and your E-bike gets stolen, you may be able to claim it on your renters insurance

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#383

Post by brotchie »

Bought a super rugged, dual battery, two-seater, motorbike-looking eBike for Burning Man. Turns out it's also amazing for getting around San Francisco.

Good sized road presence, better-than-moped acceleration and silent except for tire-on-road noise. Does 50km/h no sweat and ~100km range. Bright front light as well, so cars see you coming.

That + Waymo access has transformed my experience in the city (Waymo is hugely superior experience to Uber / Lyfy). Using the car less and less.

Living in the future.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#384

Post by FredPret »

estebank wrote: post #349
cbozeman wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit does not work in a place like Montana or Wyoming. Sorry. Too large, too sparsely populated. Same reason it won't work for most of Texas either. It's fine in Dallas or Austin, parts of Fort Worth... it doesn't scale to Lubbock or New Braunfels. A lot of people have no interest in living in your concrete jungle... myself included.

> urban areas, defined as densely developed residential, commercial, and other nonresidential areas, now account for 80.0% of the U.S. population > (as of 2018) 31% of the U.S. population lives in urban core counties Improving public transportation in cities, makes those cities better for those who live and/or work in them. In downtown SF I counted the number of people in cars backed up in a single city block. The tr…

Yes but the bus in SF isn't a place where the people in those cars would like to be. For anyone who has ever been on a bus, and who has the money to never get on a bus again, buses are a non-starter.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#385

Post by david-gpu »

itsoktocry wrote: post #338
epistasis wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always hilarious to me when people driving $60k vehicles ask me how much the ebike cost and say "that's expensive". The ebike costs less than they pay in insurance a year, much less maintenance, gas, etc. Some people have weird ideas about cars being "for regular people" while any money spent on a bicycle is a luxury.

> The ebike costs less than they pay in insurance a year, much less maintenance, gas, etc. Let me just get on my eBike and cruise the streets in the 4+ months we have snow, and 6+ months it's cold. We don't all live in California.

I live in Toronto and, like many other people in cold areas, bike year round. Biking is warmer than walking, and the streets aren't exactly empty in winter either.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#386

Post by smt88 »

michpoch wrote: post #344
smt88 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very tiny number of people in the US live a 5 min walk from a grocery store. Many people live within 5 miles of one, but usually in denser areas where 5 miles could easily take 30-60 min of travel.

So how does it work? How do you e.g. get your fresh bread in the morning? Are there some local community bakieries instead?

Americans almost never buy fresh bread. We buy packaged bread with preservatives that lasts about a week (much longer if frozen or refrigerated).

Most of us don't go to the grocery store more than once or twice a week. When we do, it's often a big purchase that you can't carry back in your hands or on a small bike. You'd need something with more cargo space.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#387

Post by FredPret »

david-gpu wrote: post #308
FredPret wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the same in Toronto. Then I bought a car. Night and day. Life became 10x easier. Suddenly Costco trips were possible. Weekend trips to cottage country. Visiting friends on the other side of town was a two-hour TTC (Toronto's public transit) ordeal; suddenly it became a 15-minute comfortable, safe, addict-free, warm car ride.

I have no doubt that driving a car would be very convenient, but how would that choice affect my neighbors? Because car traffic in the stroads around here make our homes noisy, our air polluted and our streets unsafe for children to play and be independent. It's inconceivable to me that my kids can't bike to school because of all the car traffic around it... caused by parents dropping off their kids to school. Cars i…

False dichotomy.

Also, air pollution from cars & child pedestrian deaths has never been lower.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#388

Post by willio58 »

zardo wrote: post #313
houseatrielah wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the root cause is further up the chain of casuality. People need cars because they live in the suburbs, they live in the suburbs because they have children, they want to raise children in more square footage than the urban housing stock offers. Notable exception being Tokyo Ironically, if you look NYC in the 1910s, kids used to play baseball in the street because it wasn't yet overrun by cars, suddenly not en…

And suburbs are not built around public transit anymore, those old enough to have been have mostly shut it down. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb

I live on a street that used to have a streetcar line on it! Now it's just a stroad and traffic monstrosity but I sometimes daydream of hopping on the streetcar and going to meet up with friends downtown.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#389

Post by smt88 »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #173
smt88 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very tiny number of people in the US live a 5 min walk from a grocery store. Many people live within 5 miles of one, but usually in denser areas where 5 miles could easily take 30-60 min of travel.

Right, but in denser areas it's kind of crazy that more people aren't within 1-2 miles of a grocery store.

In my city, everyone I know lives within 1 mile of a grocery store, but they drive anyway. Many have kids and their groceries take up a lot of space, and they don't have the leisure time to spend on walking anyway.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#390

Post by actionablefiber »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #295
Glide wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a positive vision of where society can go rather than having to sacrifice and buckle down. Do people not remember riding bikes as kids? Riding a bike is _still_ fun. It never stopped being fun. Now you can do that and get to work.

Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

> Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

With good infrastructure, like PBLs, cycletracks and dedicated trails, it really is that fun. DC is an extremely good place to bike commute and I do it in all weather.

Anywho if you got poor sleep and decided to drive, everyone else is living at the mercy of your alertness. I'd rather you rode a bike.

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