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I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

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Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of the charging is at home anyway. People fixate too much on the public charge options (unless you are driving hundreds of miles a day, in which case the public chargers brands are probably the least of your worries).

Unless you don’t own a home/live in a house. Apartments do not have a charger for every parking stall generally

Yes, that's true. I wouldn't recommend getting an EV if you don't have access to a charging station. I did it for a year and it was unpleasant.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#232
post #99

The payment thing just boggles my mind. I've been paying at card readers at a gas pump for 20 years now and exactly once did it not work. It's the one thing that has been completely solved in industry, and it doesn't work with EVs.

I try tap-to-pay at every gas pump that has the hardware, but only at 1 in 5 or so does it actually work.

That's actually because most cards (or merchants, perhaps) have a limit for tap to pay that is different to chip transactions ($100-300), and if the gas station does a pre-auth for $125 or so (which is what a lot of Safeway gas stations due) it hits that and requests card insertion.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#233
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Florida fuel shortage was caused by flooding which is becoming more common Is it? I am in Florida now for almost 45 years and flooding like that is neither common, nor happening with more frequency.

Ahh yes, I forgot that HN rule where pointing out someone’s rhetoric on the acceptable opinion is verboten and creates the downvote effect.

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Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#235
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas aren’t limited to charging at superchargers. Saying there is a “reliance on Tesla” makes it sound like they are. That’s going to confuse or mislead some people, maybe not your intent, but it will. We already live in a world where Teslas can charge at any charger and (recent tentative changes aside) other cars can only charge at unreliable expensive non-Tesla chargers. It’s good that this is changing but the on…

> We already live in a world where ... other cars can only charge at unreliable expensive non-Tesla chargers. No, that's North America. Europe is different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ Although Tesla's V4 chargers still suck for 800 volt cars which is a shame. Tesla must try harder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJgThJtCR2g

Thanks, good reminder of something large I overlooked.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#236
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NACS will use the same signalling protocol as CCS, which means existing vehicles will be able to charge from NACS using a passive adapter. CHAdeMO may be the new Betamax, but CCS is more like VHS-C.

How will payment work if the adapter is passive?

Latest supercharger model has a card payment terminal on the side. For older superchargers you pay via app by specifying stall number manually.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#237

Same in Germany. So many broken chargers for weeks. Read through the article, but I still don't know why so many are broken and stay broken, it says "So what was wrong with these particular machines? It could be one of many things—a broken part, a power issue, a defective connector." I don't need an article to answer why are chargers broken if the answer is "Could be one of many things, ...". Why are gasoline station…

Gas stations have attendants. When payment doesn’t work, a person can go tell someone and still pay. When a pump has an issue it can be switch off when it first happens. If it’s an easy fix, it can be done right there. If it’s not an easy fix they can schedule a repair. These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. It should have been obvious this wouldn’t work,…

> Gas stations have attendants.

Some do, where I live most are unattended. You can only pay by card.

The difference is that running a gas station is a known quantity. Large franchise have been doing it for years.

These things will resolve themselves with time.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#238

Same in Germany. So many broken chargers for weeks. Read through the article, but I still don't know why so many are broken and stay broken, it says "So what was wrong with these particular machines? It could be one of many things—a broken part, a power issue, a defective connector." I don't need an article to answer why are chargers broken if the answer is "Could be one of many things, ...". Why are gasoline station…

> Why are gasoline stations mostly never broken and chargers broken all the time? I mean... One of these technologies does have a 100 year head start on the other.

You you talking about electricity or gasoline?

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#239
post #171

Same in Germany. So many broken chargers for weeks. Read through the article, but I still don't know why so many are broken and stay broken, it says "So what was wrong with these particular machines? It could be one of many things—a broken part, a power issue, a defective connector." I don't need an article to answer why are chargers broken if the answer is "Could be one of many things, ...". Why are gasoline station…

> Read through the article, but I still don't know why so many are broken and stay broken, Exactly. I was expecting some insights into federal subsidies and bad incentives. Or maybe rushing to be the first on the market, getting the best locations while cutting corners on quality. Or a shortage of qualified technicians. Still don't know what's wrong.

> I was expecting some insights into federal subsidies and bad incentives.

I would bet a large amount of money on that - there are green subsidies for building the chargers and keeping them built, but the actual operation (selling electricity) is a money losing proposition and a business that doesn't make any sense. So mostly broken chargers is a way to maximize green subsidy for an otherwise unviable business model.

Compare that to a gas station that makes money actually selling the gasoline, with an obvious incentive to keep the infrastructure functional.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas stations have attendants. When payment doesn’t work, a person can go tell someone and still pay. When a pump has an issue it can be switch off when it first happens. If it’s an easy fix, it can be done right there. If it’s not an easy fix they can schedule a repair. These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. It should have been obvious this wouldn’t work,…

> These charging stations were built with a business model of set-it-and-forget-it. This doesn’t work. Except it does work for Tesla chargers. I never had any issues when using superchargers. But connect to a fast charging station operated by one of the other vendors - payment doesn't work, it's out of order, handshake issues. I have no other explanation except the hardware and software are low quality.

Tesla's charging equipment itself is just flat out more reliable than competitors. AFAIK they re-use modules from their vehicles ganged up so benefit highly from using an automotive grade battle-tested component. It also means there are plenty of spares available for replacement.

They also have a lot more "boots on the ground" so to speak so when a station needs service they have someone within a few hours drive at most who is capable of fixing it and likely has the parts on hand. They aren't relying on a bunch of random franchise operators to maintain equipment, nor contractors who are touching an EV charger for the first time and may need to order replacement parts that take months to arrive.

I have seen some people discount the vehicle-to-charger billing system but that is also a reliability factor. Not having to maintain a payment reader is one less thing that might break. It also means the charger can operate even if it loses network connection... it simply queues up the billing records and reports them once connection is re-established. Auth via an app or NFC terminal usually requires internet access which adds yet more points of failure.

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