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Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

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Re: Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

#31

Post by godshatter »

morelisp wrote: post #21
fouronnes3 wrote: post #3

Anyone got a link to an official report detailing what happened? The article is kinda light on details, but I assume this is a major mishap that can only happen if multiple things go wrong simultaneously? Everything m they do up there is a precisely choreographed dance so it would be interesting to read a technical report on that.

It's hard to have more failsafes on a single toolbag than "don't let go". The mission was successful (or it seems, partially successful, not due to loss of toolbag); losing the toolbag is the "one thing" that can go wrong without risking the real goal.

In this case it worked out fine, but if the tool needed to complete the task was in the tool bag, things would have worked out differently. Bonus points if one of the tools needed to undo what they had started was also in the tool bag that got away.

Re: Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

#32

Post by Fwirt »

kortex wrote: post #12
kurthr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a giant swimming pool in Galveston which has a full underwater replica of the ISS for astronaut training. There are other scuba divers that work with the astronauts when they practice maintenance. One of their jobs (like the invisible waiter at a high end restaurant that makes dirty utensils go away) is to "retrieve" anything that the astronauts "put down". Often the maintenance jobs are multi-hour "space wal…

> One of their jobs (like the invisible waiter at a high end restaurant that makes dirty utensils go away) is to "retrieve" anything that the astronauts "put down". This is fascinating. I'm not quite following what is meant by retrieval though. I assume from context the divers aren't retrieving to return the tools to the astronaut, and rather are emulating the drift that occurs in a frictionless vacuum? "Oops I set i…

It seems that much like we become able to delegate tasks like setting down a coffee cup to our subconscious on Earth, after a while in microgravity astronauts become accustomed to "setting things down" in midair. It's could be that just like in a shop on the ground, "where did I set down that wrench" is an issue; an astronaut might "set down" a tool in midair on a spacewalk and forget that they're not in a confined space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVxaL8CAO4M

Re: Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

#33

Post by kurthr »

kortex wrote: post #12
kurthr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a giant swimming pool in Galveston which has a full underwater replica of the ISS for astronaut training. There are other scuba divers that work with the astronauts when they practice maintenance. One of their jobs (like the invisible waiter at a high end restaurant that makes dirty utensils go away) is to "retrieve" anything that the astronauts "put down". Often the maintenance jobs are multi-hour "space wal…

> One of their jobs (like the invisible waiter at a high end restaurant that makes dirty utensils go away) is to "retrieve" anything that the astronauts "put down". This is fascinating. I'm not quite following what is meant by retrieval though. I assume from context the divers aren't retrieving to return the tools to the astronaut, and rather are emulating the drift that occurs in a frictionless vacuum? "Oops I set i…

Yes, they are providing the "experience of open space" :)

And apparently there's nothing funnier than an embarrassed astronaut.

Re: Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

#34

Post by gumby »

crazygringo wrote: post #20
kristianp wrote: post #13

They need a drone to go and pick these dropped items. How much fun that would be!

Now you've got me genuinely curious -- does something like that exist? A space drone with gas propulsion and a grasping hand? It seems like it would be "relatively" simple, and useful for basic tasks that don't need a full human. I mean, now that you mention it, it really seems like that ought to be a thing, and that this would be a perfect use case for it. (Visual inspection of the ISS exterior would be another.)

> A space drone with gas propulsion and a grasping hand?

Please, for this application you should use the term, "gripping hand".

To be more substantive: now you mention it I haven't heard of such a device and I also wonder why. Makes sense for inspection (but how much happens?) though retrieving lost tools sound quite difficult.

And though difficult, it seems like something worth becoming good at. Seems like a 1U might be big enough to hold a small drone and some things to retrieve. However you'd have to design your experiment carefully so that something you failed to retrieve would rather soon reenter the atmosphere and not become dangerous orbiting junk. I don't know how easy this would be: what if the drone tried to grab it and added a non-normal (i.e. sideways) component that put the target on a potentially destructive trajectory?

Re: Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

#36

Post by ccooffee »

gumby wrote: post #34
crazygringo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you've got me genuinely curious -- does something like that exist? A space drone with gas propulsion and a grasping hand? It seems like it would be "relatively" simple, and useful for basic tasks that don't need a full human. I mean, now that you mention it, it really seems like that ought to be a thing, and that this would be a perfect use case for it. (Visual inspection of the ISS exterior would be another.)

> A space drone with gas propulsion and a grasping hand? Please, for this application you should use the term, "gripping hand". To be more substantive: now you mention it I haven't heard of such a device and I also wonder why. Makes sense for inspection (but how much happens?) though retrieving lost tools sound quite difficult. And though difficult, it seems like something worth becoming good at. Seems like a 1U migh…

Aside: does the phrase "grasping hand" have a particular meaning in robotics jargon? (Or is there a different reason to avoid that terminology?)

To me a "gripping hand" is intuitively something that continuously holds an item. It might require human intervention to work, such as positioning my camera onto a universal tripod mount. A "grasping hand" (or "grabbing hand") would be something that transitions from empty-handed to holding an item.

Re: Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

#37

Post by Groxx »

crazygringo wrote: post #20
kristianp wrote: post #13

They need a drone to go and pick these dropped items. How much fun that would be!

Now you've got me genuinely curious -- does something like that exist? A space drone with gas propulsion and a grasping hand? It seems like it would be "relatively" simple, and useful for basic tasks that don't need a full human. I mean, now that you mention it, it really seems like that ought to be a thing, and that this would be a perfect use case for it. (Visual inspection of the ISS exterior would be another.)

>does something like that exist?

Technically: yes.

Practically: it's so expensive to launch anything, much less a cleanup-bot, that it basically isn't done outside of research. This will probably change, but costs are unavoidably high so it'll probably always be rare.

There's a decent summary of the area in this, from a quick googling: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/12/tech/space-junk-robot-esa-int...

For small near-station use: I'm not sure! Some uses would certainly make sense, but I would be willing to bet that the risk of it going slightly too fast and damaging something makes it undesirable. It'll probably happen eventually, but I'd be a bit surprised if it is already a thing - most that I've seen have been armed machines that "walk" around the surface by grabbing things, which is much slower and safer.

Re: Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

#39

Post by r2_pilot »

ccooffee wrote: post #36
gumby wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A space drone with gas propulsion and a grasping hand? Please, for this application you should use the term, "gripping hand". To be more substantive: now you mention it I haven't heard of such a device and I also wonder why. Makes sense for inspection (but how much happens?) though retrieving lost tools sound quite difficult. And though difficult, it seems like something worth becoming good at. Seems like a 1U migh…

Aside: does the phrase "grasping hand" have a particular meaning in robotics jargon? (Or is there a different reason to avoid that terminology?) To me a "gripping hand" is intuitively something that continuously holds an item. It might require human intervention to work, such as positioning my camera onto a universal tripod mount. A "grasping hand" (or "grabbing hand") would be something that transitions from empty-h…

In this case the GP is making a reference to "The Mote in God's Eye". An alien species has 2 hands that are similar to humans, but they also have a 3rd arm, which leads them to say, paraphrased, "on the one hand, on the other hand, on the gripping hand" since it's strongest.

Re: Astronauts drop tool bag into orbit that you can see with binoculars

#40

Post by jstanley »

Groxx wrote: post #37
crazygringo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you've got me genuinely curious -- does something like that exist? A space drone with gas propulsion and a grasping hand? It seems like it would be "relatively" simple, and useful for basic tasks that don't need a full human. I mean, now that you mention it, it really seems like that ought to be a thing, and that this would be a perfect use case for it. (Visual inspection of the ISS exterior would be another.)

> does something like that exist? Technically: yes. Practically: it's so expensive to launch anything , much less a cleanup-bot, that it basically isn't done outside of research. This will probably change, but costs are unavoidably high so it'll probably always be rare. There's a decent summary of the area in this, from a quick googling: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/12/tech/space-junk-robot-esa-int... For small near-s…

But if you lose something from the ISS, couldn't you chuck the drone out the airlock of the ISS and get it back before it's gone very far?
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