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The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

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Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#371
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving a partner something of actual value is one thing, but diamonds aren’t worth what you’re paying. That purchase needs to support an entire industry and massive marketing campaign around maintaining an artificial tradition.

Define value. You might not value it, but I dare say you value things that I don't value. Define artificial tradition. Yes someone can invent it, but it requires people to actually adopt it. All the trappings of Christmas were invented by someone. They aren't 'artificial' though

Value is defined in free markets by what you can sell something for.

Artificial tradition as in created by a marketing campaign to sell a product. Same things as eating “KFC on Christmas” in Japan or more recently “Happy Honda Days” just slightly older and more widespread.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#373
post #234
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of commitment can have utility. And status symbols can have utility. (Going on a tangent: compare Bitcoin's proof-of-work, which also has utility. Of course, that doesn't mean diamonds nor proof-of-work are the best bang-for-buck. For the latter, you can use proof-of-stake or avoid cryptocurrencies altogether. For the former, there are plenty of other social arrangements that avoid diamond rings.)

Just realized: A big fat diamond is a literal Proof of Work.

Especially since it has so little resale value.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#374
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of commitment can have utility. And status symbols can have utility. (Going on a tangent: compare Bitcoin's proof-of-work, which also has utility. Of course, that doesn't mean diamonds nor proof-of-work are the best bang-for-buck. For the latter, you can use proof-of-stake or avoid cryptocurrencies altogether. For the former, there are plenty of other social arrangements that avoid diamond rings.)

Yes, but giving something worthless but expensive is not a real tangible proof of commitment. "Here is something I paid too much for" is less meaningful than "here is something very valuable." Something valuable says if you are bad to her you'll lose out and she will have something to show for the commitment she reciprocated, something expensive that isn't valuable says I'll behave how you want to keep you around. In…

Yes, gold (or gold jewelry) holds its resale value better than diamond rings.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#375
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You need to make a 10kUSD+ purchase on a totally arbitrary piece of jewelry that very well may have incited real human suffering and violence, even though I know that desire is irrational and poorly balanced." That's a tricky topic to broach. Drop one zero from the price tag, and this definitely applies much more to your smartphone and computer than it does to gems. Drop one or two more zeroes, and this covers the…

Part of the comparison here is that the alternatives are both cheaper and practically better. So it doesn't apply so much unless you chose to buy, say, clothes from brand A that were indistinguishable from brand B to normal people but cost more and involved more child labour. Or if apple made a special phone you could buy that looked the same but cost 10x as much because it also includes payments to warlords. > Call…

> Part of the comparison here is that the alternatives are both cheaper and practically better.

It's not the case here, because you're not buying gems for their practical value. If you were, then there would not be an issue - lab-grown diamonds for cutting things would be even cheaper than they are, and you wouldn't care about other gems unless you were playing with lasers or something.

As much a I hate it, the entire point of jewelry is that it's expensive and useless. It's the OG "proof of work" kind of thing - you prove your affection by burning significant resources on some piece of junk, and the recipient can use that piece of junk to prove their status to others ("look how much wealth I can burn on stupid shit", or "look how much wealth I can get someone else to burn on my behalf"). Layer a millennium of traditions and a century of De Beers marketing on top, and we get to where we are.

Being practical devalues jewelry; being cheap is opposite of its point; being alternative means being unauthentic, and makes the wearer a liar.

> The reality is that we regularly choose minor improvements to our lives or even just spend through laziness at a cost of other people's lives.

That's the unsolved part. For any given thing enjoyed by me and a billion other people, with hardly anyone talking it's wrong, I suddenly have to take some stranger's accusations and/or guilt-tripping at face value. The math goes like this:

- Surely my responsibility can't be more than one-billionth of the whole thing;

- It's not like I can actually make a difference without upending my whole life. That doesn't feel commensurate with one billionth of whatever the bad thing is;

("Voting with your wallet" is bullshit; boycotts don't work; you can't really make a dent without a large movement here, and good luck creating one over random consumer decision - you're competing with efforts to start a movement over ever other such decision, and people's attention is finite.)

- You came out of nowhere and started guilt-tripping me, it's not just inconvenient and makes me feel bad, but it's also a technique used by scammers and cultists and politicians - so why should I trust your math in the first place?

With a little hand-waving, the solution to above inequality is "I'm not going to change, and I don't like you anymore".

I'm not saying this is good - just that it is. That's the bit that's unsolved in practice.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#376
post #361
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, Tinsel is at the edge of that 150 year window only going back to 1890’s, but Christmas hasn’t changed that much from 200 years ago. If you look at old pictures Christmas trees taken in 1900 it looks basically the same as one today except for the LED lighting showing how slowly things evolved. Documentation isn’t that great, but back in the 1450’s people decorated fir trees with apples alongside other orna…

You're talking about Central and Northern Europe (+ their colonies). Christmas in Eastern Europe and most other places looked nothing like that. Heck, Seychelles and Hawaii decorate their local trees like they're fir trees in Scandinavia.

Yes the tradition spread, but people don’t live in the same place our ancestors did 600 years ago either. Traditions diffuse across generations, cultures, and geographic borders that doesn’t somehow make them new or fake.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cousin's wife has cut him off from our entire family.

Not necessarily bad without knowing more about the parties involved. Some families are toxic and awful and should be cut off.

Certainly, and as a stranger on the internet I have no skin in the game, but "happy wife, happy life" is toxic poison that leads to deeply controlling relationships.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wouldn't marry anyone... yeah but I wouldn't tell someone that seems reasonably happy with the person they married that I wouldn't marry them. As long as we're listing the things we wouldn't do.

I wouldn't care if someone said they wouldn't marry whomever I married for some deal breaker unique to them. If I disagree with it, I'd think "their loss, sucks to have weird arbitrary standards" If I agreed then I'd have been lying about my happiness with the relationship. Either way some things need to be said. I haven't seen any good arguments in favor of purchasing a diamond ring which don't seem to dismiss and d…

Sure - I understand that you have your particular opinions on what communication is ok, I obviously have my own opinions on things that I find ok or not as well, but I also consider what things may be considered out of line by other people before communicating with someone and I think

- I love my wife!

- Well, I wouldn't marry her.

Might be the kind of communication (obviously, broken down here to its base level here) that would be considered out of line by a significant portion of the world population.

>I haven't seen any good arguments in favor of purchasing a diamond ring

As a gift

>which don't seem to dismiss and devalue the agency and right to an opinion of the purchaser.

when buying a gift for someone it is probably good to consider and value the agency and right to an opinion of the receiver.

Not saying you are forced to buy a diamond, I don't have, but that is partially because my wife does not have strong opinions on that subject either way.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#379
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the cost that’s the issue, it’s the underlying desire. Belief in astrology is seemingly harmless, but it’s a sign of underlying irrationality that I find unacceptable. The ritual around a hunk of carbon is the same category of thinking IMO. Also, ‘a few days salary’ rather defeats the rituals purpose.

Eh, I’m fervently anti-diamond (they’re silly imo), but I can acknowledge that, to some, they represent (I think?) a lasting commitment and are a cultural tradition. If the desire is emotional, then there’s no reasoning with it anyway. (And not everything in life need be logical.)

I like diamonds. They are pretty.

But we also look at the ethics of most diamonds. And aside custom lab grown, child exploitation and murder are the norm.

I ethically refuse to pay any money into that system of child exploitation, child murder, and mass violence.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#380
post #291
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a sensible argument unless you think about it for about 5 seconds. In reality, most of those women absolutely wouldn’t want said man to literally burn $3k or even $20k. Absolutely 100% brainwashed.

Are you completely sure? https://caratsandcake.com/articles/wedding-fireworks-wedding... “Wedding fireworks can cost anywhere between $3,000 and $25,000, according to Theiss—it all depends on timing and the size of the show you want. The more common range is $3,000 to $5,000 for weddings.”

Exactly. I probably spent $20k this year on vacations (for me and my extended family).

Buy experiences. Money well spent. Not diamonds and other ego-inflating stuff. It keeps the negative flywheel spinning faster and will hurt you long-term.

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