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KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

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Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#191

Post by sph »

Pannoniae wrote: post #47
addicted wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There you go proving that it’s not just that many Linux users have a bad design sensibility, but worse, they will defend bad design as good design. Not only do you defend it, even your defense proves that Comic Sans is a bad design, because matching the needs of what it’s used for (in this case a business setting, where fun fonts are not allowed) is one of the highest factors in good design. And you display another b…

Not all of life is business, and there's some business where fun is allowed. Also, Comic Sans is not even something rebellious, it's literally a good-looking, quirky font, people just hate it because it looks distinctive and it stands out. This is a bit dystopian to scream "NO FUN ALLOWED"....

I'll typeset your obituary in Comic Sans. I'll even add a clipart.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#192

Post by bootsmann »

bogwog wrote: post #54
ta988 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a Nvidia? They are notoriously buggy.

I've been using Wayland + KDE (currently Plasma 5.27.8) for a very long time now on my machine with an Nvidia GPU (first a 1080TI, then a 4090). There are annoying bugs, but they're not show stoppers. I'm not someone who whines about problems like these, especially because I'm at the forefront of the Linux desktop, on a known-bad combination, so there are bound to be bugs :P For example, a persistent bug that hasn't…

This might very well be a nvidia problem, their driver comes with its own suspend functions which replaces your default one during install (it usually tells you on the dnf install screen)

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#193

Post by tmtvl »

traverseda wrote: post #144
johnchristopher wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The advantages of tiling window managers are so tied to muscle memory, I’m not sure many people will want to switch from, say, sway or i3 or whatever. Hear, hear ! I have been stucked with awesome for years now and even though I lost some functionalities between v2 and v4 I still can't switch. I tried i3 and regolith (was really looking for all the niceties of a DE: volume, bluetooth, screen, etc.) but tiling opera…

I wasn't exactly an awesomewm power user, so I'm sure there's awesomewm functionality you couldn't mimic in kde, but my most used keyboard shortcuts I was able to import in to kde.

My only problem with KDE is the lack of a feature that Awesome has: I use 2 monitors and in KDE when I switch to another workspace the workspace switches on both monitors, while in Awesome when I switch to another tag only the tag on the active monitor changes.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#194

Post by hulitu »

chlorion wrote: post #155
brnt wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have three laptops each with Intel graphics, each from a different generation. They all have the same show stopping (as in screen locking gotta reset) bugs after a fresh distro install, no adjustments. But ofcourse, Wayland isn't the problem...

Wayland has been flawless for me, but for others not so much. Every thread about wayland has people claiming it's broken yet they aren't reporting bugs or providing useful information at all, just vague complaints. Many people experience no issues with wayland, and some people do experience issues, but without any information nothing can be done to even attempt to fix things. It's possible in many cases that somethin…

> yet they aren't reporting bugs or providing useful information at all,

When you have to register on a website to report bugs, you just switch back to X (path of least resistance).

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#195

Post by brnt »

kaba0 wrote: post #182
brnt wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't even have to do anything. Just boot after a fresh install and wait a minute or two. Three generation of all Intel laptops. I uploaded some logs, but people were utterly uninterested or hostile.

It has nothing to do with Wayland though, based on the description. Wayland used the base kernel API to manage the display. That is probably broken on your given device. X11 often gets patched by a proprietary nvidia blob (the nvidia driver), which uses a separate, non-standard, X-specific API.

May be. As i wrote: Intel gpus. All I know is the problem was gone with an X session and nobody at the distro or some boards showed any interest. Not a good way to make sure code works methinks.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#196

Post by wkat4242 »

kaba0 wrote: post #184
wkat4242 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course X11 is badly maintained. Because RedHat took over the maintenance and they want to push Wayland. They took it over to kill it. X11 is not ideal but I don't think it'll really die. The big benefit of UNIX/Linux is choice. Including for a graphics stack. I'd use Wayland if it worked with KDE on FreeBSD but it doesn't yet. But I'm not in a hurry anyway.

> Because RedHat took over the maintenance and they want to push Wayland. They took it over to kill it. Can we stop with these useless conteos? No one goddamn cares about linux desktop, this is the unfortunate state of things. X could be maintained, but no one goddamn cares about doing that ugly work, because they don’t get paid Cobol-bank money for maintaining an ugly legacy software that was designed at a time when…

RedHat is just a bad maintainer because they have a commercial interest in wayland.

They've done the same to CentOS of course - just taking it over to kill it because it's in their way of selling paid licenses.

I'm surprised how much support they have been getting from the community. They managed to frame perfectly normal open source users as "freeloaders" during the whole CentOS and closing source debacle surrounding RHEL. And the community seems to be happy parrotting this twisted narrative. The whole reason for FOSS is to share.

It's one of the main reasons I moved to FreeBSD, I don't want my OS to be a stringpuppet for big tech.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#197

Post by vetinari »

brnt wrote: post #159
vetinari wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you told us, how to replicate this show stopping bug so we could it try ourselves, someone could fix it then. Wayland being the problem or not.

I did, there was no interest.

I'm curious, because I have machines with Intel GPUs from different vendors and of various generations (from Ivy Bridge, through Kaby Lake up to the Raptor Lake) and I've never seen such a bug.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#198

Post by earthling8118 »

TillE wrote: post #88
dheera wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, Chinese input breaks in Chrome on Wayland and they still haven't fixed this bug after 2+ years. Also, Nvidia drivers don't work with Wayland. So I'm still stuck with Xorg.

Wayland not working with NVIDIA is a massive deal-breaker. I've used Linux desktops on and off for the past 20 years, and it's incredibly frustrating how everything is perpetually in a state of semi-brokenness as they move on to the Next Thing. I still think about the early years of KDE4, which were a horrible regression from the stable and usable KDE3.

I agree; this was a complete deal breaker for me. I had no choice but to ditch Nvidia as a result. It's been really great since then. Especially not having to deal with their shenanigans when I want to do something simple like update my kernel.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#199

Post by jdiff »

cedilla wrote: post #35
addicted wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There you go proving that it’s not just that many Linux users have a bad design sensibility, but worse, they will defend bad design as good design. Not only do you defend it, even your defense proves that Comic Sans is a bad design, because matching the needs of what it’s used for (in this case a business setting, where fun fonts are not allowed) is one of the highest factors in good design. And you display another b…

Op did not say it is a good choice for business. Among designers the idea that comic sans is a very decent font is a very uncontroversial opinion.

As a designer, the absolute warmest take I've seen towards Comic Sans is "It's fine, not good, but fine. But it's so overused and misused that it's become slightly radioactive."

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#200

Post by jdiff »

jdiff wrote: post #163
sublinear wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't think they're at odds, then you should try your hand at implementing what you think looks good without breaking upstream features. Then try maintaining it indefinitely. > Visual soup is hard to organize and make sense of. Initially yes but once you know where things are, having everything be visually distinct can sidestep a lot of unnecessary GUI features (search boxes, configurable views, toolbars, etc.…

Information can be dense and designed. It's actually more important for dense information to be designed well to avoid devolving into soup. KDE and its many design inconsistencies and automatic collapsing of menus into "... and X more items" leading to menus nested 5+ deep is not good design. Away from KDE, away from GUIs, a dense text readout of key value pairs with no new lines presents a lot of information, but is…

I fully realize I'm just talking to myself at this point but I want to get this thought out of my head and add that a big part of Blender's good design specifically comes from its flexibility. Every workspace is built from well-designed panels that are consistent internally and with each other, and that can be moved around at will to suit particular parts of the 3D workflow. Blender's modularity and customizability is actually a vital part of what makes its design good.
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