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KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

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Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#161

Post by brnt »

chlorion wrote: post #155
brnt wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have three laptops each with Intel graphics, each from a different generation. They all have the same show stopping (as in screen locking gotta reset) bugs after a fresh distro install, no adjustments. But ofcourse, Wayland isn't the problem...

Wayland has been flawless for me, but for others not so much. Every thread about wayland has people claiming it's broken yet they aren't reporting bugs or providing useful information at all, just vague complaints. Many people experience no issues with wayland, and some people do experience issues, but without any information nothing can be done to even attempt to fix things. It's possible in many cases that somethin…

I did. It was a base distro install just booted up, as I already stated.l, on three different, bog standard machines. They were not interested either.

I take my bug reports a bit more seriously, and I don't use instances of success to discount instances of failure. A bug's a bug, a good proces cares about outliers (and as you say, Wayland erroring does not seem like an outlier) too.

I understand not all combinations of hardware can work flawlessly, but Intel machines with Intel hardware seems like a good baseline to ensure always works before you mainline Wayland.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#162

Post by duckmysick »

vetinari wrote: post #145
brnt wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have three laptops each with Intel graphics, each from a different generation. They all have the same show stopping (as in screen locking gotta reset) bugs after a fresh distro install, no adjustments. But ofcourse, Wayland isn't the problem...

Maybe if you told us, how to replicate this show stopping bug so we could it try ourselves, someone could fix it then. Wayland being the problem or not.

Not the OP, but happens to me too. Steps to replicate: put your laptop to sleep (suspend) and try to wake it up (resume). You end up with a black screen. Often times, you can SSH into your laptop, but the screen remains unresponsive. Only hard reset helps.

There are many reports of such bug. It's common on Wayland, but happens on X11 to some folks. The only constant is it happens on devices with Nvidia cards.

I tried pretty much everything and I gave up on solving it.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#163

Post by jdiff »

sublinear wrote: post #129
jdiff wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the problem. These two things are not at odds. Good design is functional. Good design makes information easy to find and digest. Visual soup is hard to organize and make sense of. Form is a component of function. A knife with another blade instead of a handle can do less cutting, not more. A knife with a contoured handle is easier to wield than one with a flat block handle. These concepts translate we…

If you don't think they're at odds, then you should try your hand at implementing what you think looks good without breaking upstream features. Then try maintaining it indefinitely. > Visual soup is hard to organize and make sense of. Initially yes but once you know where things are, having everything be visually distinct can sidestep a lot of unnecessary GUI features (search boxes, configurable views, toolbars, etc.…

Information can be dense and designed. It's actually more important for dense information to be designed well to avoid devolving into soup. KDE and its many design inconsistencies and automatic collapsing of menus into "... and X more items" leading to menus nested 5+ deep is not good design.

Away from KDE, away from GUIs, a dense text readout of key value pairs with no new lines presents a lot of information, but is functionally useless. A tiny dash of design - pairs on new lines, some boldness for keys, indentation for values that wrap to new lines - drastically increases the readability. No matter how familiar you are with this particular text dump, this remains true. You can't escape design by running off into the terminal.

In GUIs, having movable, modular panels can be good design. Blender's design is quite good, especially among its peers, and everything about it can be shuffled around in ways most apps with modular panels can only dream of.

Again, we're not talking about a 1 dimensional spectrum between design and density. Design isn't just "add padding" and "remove customizability."

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#164

Post by IshKebab »

sintax wrote: post #154
IshKebab wrote: post #19

Does screen capture actually work reliably yet? I hope they leave X11 as an option until it does.

You could use sunshine ( https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine ) + moonlight ( https://github.com/moonlight-stream/moonlight-qt ). To be honest, at least for me, it works better than most of the RDP/VNC stuff.

I don't need that. I need Google Meet and Zoom and OBS to work properly.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#165

Post by brnt »

duckmysick wrote: post #162
vetinari wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you told us, how to replicate this show stopping bug so we could it try ourselves, someone could fix it then. Wayland being the problem or not.

Not the OP, but happens to me too. Steps to replicate: put your laptop to sleep (suspend) and try to wake it up (resume). You end up with a black screen. Often times, you can SSH into your laptop, but the screen remains unresponsive. Only hard reset helps. There are many reports of such bug. It's common on Wayland, but happens on X11 to some folks. The only constant is it happens on devices with Nvidia cards. I tried…

I didn't even have to do anything. Just boot after a fresh install and wait a minute or two. Three generation of all Intel laptops. I uploaded some logs, but people were utterly uninterested or hostile.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#166

Post by mardifoufs »

bayindirh wrote: post #158
mardifoufs wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia, even on Wayland since the latest 545 driver, works just fine if you use the proprietary drivers.

If your card is supported by the latest proprietary driver, of course. Also, NVIDIA nukes the open drivers by providing a crippled firmware for them, but this is another story.

Ah, I didn't think about that. What's the oldest card/gen that is actually supported by the latest drivers?

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#167

Post by mardifoufs »

kabes wrote: post #156
mardifoufs wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia, even on Wayland since the latest 545 driver, works just fine if you use the proprietary drivers.

My issues started since driver 545

Are you using Wayland? I'm curious since it seems like most people I've discussed with have confirmed that the 545 drivers improved things for them. I thought they might actually have fixed/improved the experience for most Wayland users but I guess things are never that simple!

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#168

Post by ColonelPhantom »

lxe wrote: post #72

Wayland doesn't fractionally scale chrome, discord, vscode, spotify, beeper, and other appimage and non-native applications. So even if KDE enables it by default, most users will have to switch back to X.

FTFY: GNOME Shell/Mutter and wlroots don't fractionally scale chrome, discord, vscode, spotify, beeper and other Xwayland applications.

KDE Plasma Wayland by default applies Xwayland fractional scaling for X11 apps, which while less good than Wayland-native scaling mostly works. (If it's broken for you/an app you use, you can toggle it to let the DE scale up from 100%.)

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#169

Post by ColonelPhantom »

AzzyHN wrote: post #96

Fractional scaling is ugly with XWayland apps, which yes isn't a Wayland issue per se but...

KDE doesn't have this problem, actually. At least it's not uglier than X11, since by default (since 5.27 or so) it uses X11's DPI scaling for Xwayland apps by default. You can change that under Display settings if it doesn't work for your apps and you need to revert to ugly blurry upscaling like GNOME and sway do.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#170

Post by ColonelPhantom »

IshKebab wrote: post #164
sintax wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use sunshine ( https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine ) + moonlight ( https://github.com/moonlight-stream/moonlight-qt ). To be honest, at least for me, it works better than most of the RDP/VNC stuff.

I don't need that. I need Google Meet and Zoom and OBS to work properly.

OBS works fine via xdg-desktop-portal. I think Firefox (which you can use for Meet and Zoom?) also works, but it's been ages since I tried. Not sure about Chrome and Electron apps, but for those you'll at least need a pretty new version (which Discord for example refuses to ship iirc).
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