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Nicotine (2016)

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Re: Nicotine (2016)

#251

Post by nickstinemates »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #35
insanitybit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero interest in cigarettes though. So like, let's say I started chewing a gum and then I became addicted to the gum. I'm assuming the downside here would be primarily withdrawal effects of not chewing the gum? It's not like it's going to be a gateway to cigarettes for me. You'll experience caffeine withdrawal too, so I'm not sure that's really a problem. From the article, > There is little evidence from the N…

Indeed, there are loads of occasional-cigar smokers out there who have zero interest in smoking cigarettes, and in between the times they feel they can afford a quality cigar, simply do not smoke at all.

I just had my first cigar the other night at 38. Was a good experience, I look forward to next time, but it was the environment/atmosphere more than the high.

I have zero interest in smoking weed or cigarettes. It's a completely different thing in my mind.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#252

Post by trogdor »

huytersd wrote: post #248
trogdor wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dependence on a drug is not necessarily bad. Addiction absolutely is. Addiction (substance use disorder) exists when a person exhibits two or more of the following symptoms: (1) impaired control, (2) social problems, (3) risky use, and (4) physical dependence. Impaired control means using more of a substance or more often than intended; or wanting to cut down or stop use but not being able to. Social problems include…

That’s just generic boilerplate addiction literature. None of those apply to nicotine. It’s cheap, legal and doesn’t have enough of an effect to be a public disorder risk. No one is committing domestic violence or impaired driving while being purely “hopped up on nicotine”. The most you might get is someone holding up a store to incidentally steal cigarettes while they go for what’s in the cash register, but that’s a…

I didn’t say anything about nicotine. You wrote that “Being addicted isn’t bad in itself.”

That is incorrect.

Addiction is bad by definition.

That is what I was replying to.

What you are brushing off as “boilerplate” are the DSM-5 criteria for substance use disorder — colloquially known as addiction.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#253

Post by huytersd »

trogdor wrote: post #252
huytersd wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just generic boilerplate addiction literature. None of those apply to nicotine. It’s cheap, legal and doesn’t have enough of an effect to be a public disorder risk. No one is committing domestic violence or impaired driving while being purely “hopped up on nicotine”. The most you might get is someone holding up a store to incidentally steal cigarettes while they go for what’s in the cash register, but that’s a…

I didn’t say anything about nicotine. You wrote that “Being addicted isn’t bad in itself.” That is incorrect. Addiction is bad by definition. That is what I was replying to. What you are brushing off as “boilerplate” are the DSM-5 criteria for substance use disorder — colloquially known as addiction.

We’re clearly talking about nicotine in this thread. Your boilerplate addition did nothing to address anything about a nicotine addiction. Not all of them are the same- there is a stark difference in being addicted to caffeine and being addicted to heroin. Copy pasting information without context adds nothing useful.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#254

Post by rudasn »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #221
standardUser wrote: post #154

The addictive properties of nicotine aren't magic. It requires sustained, repeated consumption, like any physically addicting substances. And research has shown that different people have different propensities for addiction (same with cocaine and alcohol). But if you do become addicted to nicotine, and are one of the people with a high propensity for nicotine addiction, you're fucked. It's one of the most challengin…

>As a former smoker, I can only believe that anyone who takes this risk does not fully appreciate the consequences. That's the key thing there, "smoker". If you become addicted to nicotine via smoking tobacco, then you're possibly fucked, but nicotine by itself is nowhere near as dangerous for health, it even has some benefits for well-being. I don't know why you take exception to some people or articles emphasizing…

> nicotine by itself is nowhere near as dangerous for health, it even has some benefits for well-being.

So, recently I had to learn that nicotine is super toxic and can be lethal or at least severely damaging to internal organs, especially for children, toddlers, babies, small animals (dogs, cats), etc.

Maybe Google it, or ask your doctor, if your assumption that "by itself is nowhere near as dangerous for health, it even has some benefits for well-being" stands.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#255

Post by rodent_rodeo »

rudasn wrote: post #254
southernplaces7 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a former smoker, I can only believe that anyone who takes this risk does not fully appreciate the consequences. That's the key thing there, "smoker". If you become addicted to nicotine via smoking tobacco, then you're possibly fucked, but nicotine by itself is nowhere near as dangerous for health, it even has some benefits for well-being. I don't know why you take exception to some people or articles emphasizing…

> nicotine by itself is nowhere near as dangerous for health, it even has some benefits for well-being. So, recently I had to learn that nicotine is super toxic and can be lethal or at least severely damaging to internal organs, especially for children, toddlers, babies, small animals (dogs, cats), etc. Maybe Google it, or ask your doctor, if your assumption that "by itself is nowhere near as dangerous for health, it…

Are you referencing like pure nicotine liquids? Yeah vape juices that smell like jelly donuts, if a toddler/animal drinks a month supply in a few minutes it’s going to be bad news. Also, when people were mixing their own juices they’d be buying pure nicotine and getting poisoned.

“The dose makes the poison.”

Anyways, not going to list out all the pros and cons of nicotine as Andrew Huberman did that for us. He has a decent podcast that’s goes through it all.

No one really argues that it’s essential or beneficial in every way but it’s not the purported demon that the anti smoker lobby has made it out to be.

Many years ago, I heard the Japanese even put it into their drinks. I’ve tried searching for it now and found some iffy sources and outdated Reddit links and everything else is just e juice vape spam. Can any Japanese knowledgeable people confirm or deny this?

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#256

Post by dageshi »

dieselgate wrote: post #233
dageshi wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I have some personal experience with nicotine in different formats. Cigars (not inhaled) and zyn packets you slip under your lip. My experience is that nicotine is highly addictive based on dosage and delivery. Cigars were in no way addictive, I suspect because the delivery of the nicotine takes quite a while. The zyn though, I quickly ramped up from low dosages (1-3mg) to the higest dosages (10mg+). And at my wor…

Strongly agree with the slow decrease method. One of the nice things about nicotine pouches/gum is they come pre-dosed so it's pretty simple in how to ramp down. Doing it is the tough part. For more fine grained decreases I've used the 3mg, then 2mg, then split up pieces of nicotine gum (2 or 4 mg) to get down to like 1 and .5 mg doses.

I actually quit over the course of a week. Going from 10mg+ pouches down to 9, 6, 3 and finally quit.

Going from 3mg to no longer using was relatively straightforward.

Trying to quit from 10mg cold turkey was basically impossible. 4 days after going cold turkey I was still absolutely desperate for nicotine. The difference was massive.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#257

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

hirvi74 wrote: post #225
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #187

I occasionally suck on a 2mg nicotine lozenge when doing activities I want to encourage (Anki, low intensity stationary biking). Seems to work well for habit formation for me, and I never really feel the urge to use them outside of those contexts.

After reading Gwern's writings on nicotine some years back, I did a bit of research myself. I can't recall where I read this, but I did come across some anecdotal datum about a person using nicotine to help them workout. However, that person was quite strict about their usage. He or she would only using nicotine when working out but never any other time. The reasoning was that nicotine helps in habit formation while…

That might well have been me if it was in the last year or so. That's basically what I use it for, yes.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#258

Post by octatrack »

huytersd wrote: post #214
octatrack wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am committed to not smoking or vaping, no matter what. So far, I haven’t experienced any strong cravings for the gum when not taking it for a day or two. When I decide to stop in about a couple months, I will power through with discipline.

Easy to say. I have excellent discipline in most areas of my life but nicotine is a hard one. Doesn’t help that I don’t want to quit either because the actual health risks seem minimal (I vape, flavorless, lab grade)

There are health risks associated with vaping though, so the risk is not minimal. But yes, you need to _want to_ quit in order to be able to.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#259

Post by insanitybit »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #242
insanitybit wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, then I'm going to go with "doesn't sound true"...

There needs to be a term for this mindset where people won't entertain a thought or idea unless there's a study proving that thought is correct in all cases. I can guarantee the person you responded to is a weightlifter.

That's not the case here at all. I believe lots of things without studies. Something like "heroin and cigarettes are equally addictive" doesn't sound right to me - that's why I need evidence to the contrary. It's a somewhat extraordinary claim, therefor I require some evidence.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#260

Post by OfSanguineFire »

nickstinemates wrote: post #251
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, there are loads of occasional-cigar smokers out there who have zero interest in smoking cigarettes, and in between the times they feel they can afford a quality cigar, simply do not smoke at all.

I just had my first cigar the other night at 38. Was a good experience, I look forward to next time, but it was the environment/atmosphere more than the high. I have zero interest in smoking weed or cigarettes. It's a completely different thing in my mind.

There is no "high" with cigars. It's just a matter of enjoying a particular aroma profile, just like eating barbecue, smelling a perfume, or burning some incense. Did you really go into smoking a cigar expecting some kind of drug experience?
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