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Nicotine (2016)

gwern.net

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Re: Nicotine (2016)

#161

Post by vGPU »

vGPU wrote: post #156
egnehots wrote: post #11

I'm concerned that many might miss the nuance and subtlety of the main issue: - Nicotine IS really addictive when distributed through common uses (smoking, vaping). Yes, if the absorption is progressive and in small dosages, the addiction is less severe, but this is not useful for smokers who want to quit and presents a dangerous introduction for others

Not particularly. Pure nicotine in and of itself is significantly less addictive than the form presented in a cigarette. Modern big tobacco has managed to create an incredibly nasty and addictive chemical slurry in a stick, with acetaldehyde, ammonia, MAOIs, and a bunch of other chemicals which significantly increase the addictiveness of nicotine. Gwern has noted the same in his post: > Wikipedia summarizes Guillem e…

Gwern has noted the same in his post:

> Wikipedia summarizes Guillem et al 2005 as “Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties” - the addictiveness coming from MAOIs (eg. Khalil et al 2000, Khalil et al 2006) & possibly other compounds present in tobacco

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#162

Post by 01100011 »

I've smoked on and off over the years, starting at 12. I never developed an addiction so I guess I'm lucky.

I really enjoy smoking a pipe, but generally don't because of the health risks and the difficulty finding a place to comfortably smoke as a renter of a non-smoking apartment.

Lately though I've been vaping 0-4x/day to help me focus and get mental energy. I also occasionally use half-doses of modafinil and notice the two work well together. The biggest downside of vaping for me is that I feel a little more agitated and depressed the next day or so. I guess this is what might normally feed the addictive cycle for others, but with type-2 bipolar depression it's a feeling I'm familiar with and I just ride it out vs trying to eliminate the feeling with more nicotine.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#163

Post by octatrack »

huytersd wrote: post #115
octatrack wrote: post #105

I used to be a smoker, for a good decade. Then, switched to vaping for 3-4 years, which allowed me to taper down my nicotine use and quit completely. This was about 5 years ago. Recently, I’ve started using nicotine gum to increase focus while working. I usually use 1 mg, maximum 4 times a day. I typically begin taking it in the afternoon, my morning work sessions are usually nicotine-free. I have been using it on mo…

You have zero desire to smoke or vape now but the usual way is you end up having a strong craving for your preferred mode of delivery (gum in your case) when it’s not available and then attempt another one to tide you through till your order gets here. Now you have two modes of delivery.

I am committed to not smoking or vaping, no matter what.

So far, I haven’t experienced any strong cravings for the gum when not taking it for a day or two. When I decide to stop in about a couple months, I will power through with discipline.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#164

Post by namanyayg »

fwungy wrote: post #155

I've used 2mg nicotine gum as a mental clarity aid for years. It's cheap, effective, and harmless AFAIK. I have stopped using it for months at a time and never has any withdrawal symptoms. Caffeine otoh is addictive for me and will cause withdrawal symptoms if I indulge too often. The caffeine buzz can make me jittery and increase ADHD type behaviors for me. Ymmv.

How long does the effect last?

I started taking caffeine pills before working out (a ~100mg dose) and it works really well, I wonder if I should try out nicotine gum too

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#165

Post by whoodle »

iteygib wrote: post #8

I use nicotine gum (2mg) to concentrate on reading or programming tasks from time to time. I have never smoked. I prefer it over caffeine as I do no get the irritable withdrawals. The only noticeable side affect I experience is some sleepiness after the effect wears off (around 30-40 minutes).

I’ve done this too as someone diagnosed with a lot of daytime sleepiness.

Any worry about longterm effects of nicotine? I’ve tried to find good studies online but most center around smoking, not the gum or pure nicotine.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#166

Post by sotix »

Is there any research into nicotine’s role in assisting those with ADHD? It’s a stimulant as the article points out, which many ADHD medications are as well of course. I’m curious if nicotine was (perhaps unintentionally) used in the 20th century to help those with ADHD stay focused on tasks and if an increase of diagnosed ADHD cases in the 21st century stems from its declined use or if it’s entirely due to other factors such as generally being diagnosed to a greater degree.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#167

Post by waveBidder »

aappleby wrote: post #148

Anecdata of one here- Non-smoker, originally tried nicotine vapes as an alternative to caffeine which I tend to overuse. Not very effective for me as I seem to have a paradoxical reaction to it that makes me want to take a nap for 5-10 minutes after inhaling, but I found the sensation was pleasurable when combined with cannabis edibles so I kept the vape around. Absolutely zero physical addiction. I can and have stop…

apparently stimulants behaving like depressants is something that may be associated with ADHD, so you may want to visit a psychiatrist.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#168

Post by jrmg »

laurentlassalle wrote: post #147
vik0 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get how so many people like coffee. I've tried it maybe a handful of times in my life, getting the type that my friends said is great, and I've always found it to be reminiscent of dirty water, that is, water that has been contaminated with dirt. Why do so many people like it? My friends say they like the taste, but I don't believe them. I think it has to do with them being coerced into liking coffee at a you…

> My friends say they like the taste, but I don't believe them. I think it has to do with them being coerced into liking coffee at a young age, and now they're addicted to it because of its caffeine content. Daily coffee drinker here. Maybe I'm in the minority but I really enjoy the taste (strong espresso without sugar/milk) and really dislike the caffeine content (always prefer decaf, if available).

Also a daily coffee drinker.

I have a theory that humans like _complexity_. I’m pretty sure I didn’t originally like coffee (or e.g. scotch), but I do now because part of my brain really enjoys analyzing the flavor.

It’s a different enjoyment than e.g. donuts or bananas, which just ‘taste good’. Coffee (and whisky) ‘tastes interesting’ to a degree that overcomes the initial harshness.

So GP is sort of correct for the most basic interpretation. They’re just not appreciating that enjoyment and liking are not always straightforward.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#169

Post by [deleted] »

sotix wrote: post #166

Is there any research into nicotine’s role in assisting those with ADHD? It’s a stimulant as the article points out, which many ADHD medications are as well of course. I’m curious if nicotine was (perhaps unintentionally) used in the 20th century to help those with ADHD stay focused on tasks and if an increase of diagnosed ADHD cases in the 21st century stems from its declined use or if it’s entirely due to other fac…

[deleted]

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#170

Post by plexman »

iteygib wrote: post #8

I use nicotine gum (2mg) to concentrate on reading or programming tasks from time to time. I have never smoked. I prefer it over caffeine as I do no get the irritable withdrawals. The only noticeable side affect I experience is some sleepiness after the effect wears off (around 30-40 minutes).

I think that the stimulant property is felt less if you are not used to nicotine. You would notice a lot more of the dizziness/light-headedness.

But on the other side it could be just the fact that when you are hooked, you need it just to not feel the withdraw.

As with some drugs this one can be used beneficially if well spaced (idk a full week, then 3m without it?). To me any use beyond this small period is just not efficient, performance wise.

I used to smoke a pack a month, last year i discovered this pouches from a Swedish friend (he was talking about the under-average incidence of lung cancer there). I got hooked, and it was really bad to quit. Yes its not like its crack/heroine and ill go steal or stop showering, but i had sever trouble sleeping (of course i slept with them many times). The quit moment for me was when i started to double dose on the strongest ones, also my gums were sore and bled sometimes (if i could not buy my preferred brand i would buy minted, felt like a junkie going to crack on not finding whatever drug of preference)...

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