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Nicotine (2016)

gwern.net

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Re: Nicotine (2016)

#151

Post by binary132 »

dan_man wrote: post #70

Quoting one of the reply [0] from the linked thread in the OP: Nicotine is considered one of the most (if not THE most) physically and psychologically addictive substances in the entire world. Prior to introducing nicotine into your body, there is no compulsion for your body want/need it. However, as SOON as you introduce it for the first time, it gives birth to a "little monster" of need within you. This monster wil…

I used to smoke cigarettes fairly frequently (about 1-2 a day perhaps 10-15 years ago) and have never experienced this. Every now and then, perhaps every few months, I think it might be pleasant to get into pipe tobacco, try snuff or snus, or enjoy a cigar. I can categorically say that I experience nothing I would remotely categorize as regret or craving whatsoever.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#152

Post by aappleby »

vik0 wrote: post #60
carlmr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't caffeine a vasoconstrictor as well? Wouldn't that make coffee a silent killer?

I don't get how so many people like coffee. I've tried it maybe a handful of times in my life, getting the type that my friends said is great, and I've always found it to be reminiscent of dirty water, that is, water that has been contaminated with dirt. Why do so many people like it? My friends say they like the taste, but I don't believe them. I think it has to do with them being coerced into liking coffee at a you…

Coffee is delicious and worsens my arthritis. I drink a coffee substitute called Dandy Blend most days, but damn do I miss the real stuff.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#153

Post by jdietrich »

reactordev wrote: post #58
insanitybit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero interest in cigarettes though. So like, let's say I started chewing a gum and then I became addicted to the gum. I'm assuming the downside here would be primarily withdrawal effects of not chewing the gum? It's not like it's going to be a gateway to cigarettes for me. You'll experience caffeine withdrawal too, so I'm not sure that's really a problem. From the article, > There is little evidence from the N…

The withdrawal effects are more like kicking a heroin addiction.

I'm not really sure whether I can or should dispute your basic point, but I will say that pharmaceutically pure nicotine is radically different to tobacco smoke.

People who quit smoking are actually quitting a synergistic cocktail of drugs - nicotine and a variety of MAO inhibitors found in tobacco smoke. There is good evidence to suggest that these MAOI components dramatically increase the addictiveness of nicotine.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01618...

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#154

Post by standardUser »

The addictive properties of nicotine aren't magic. It requires sustained, repeated consumption, like any physically addicting substances. And research has shown that different people have different propensities for addiction (same with cocaine and alcohol).

But if you do become addicted to nicotine, and are one of the people with a high propensity for nicotine addiction, you're fucked. It's one of the most challenging addictions to quit, as we all know. Is this a risk you want to take for some mild stimulation? As a former smoker, I can only believe that anyone who takes this risk does not fully appreciate the consequences. The exception might be people who have consumed nicotine on and off but have never had addictive tendencies. Those people definitely exist, but it still seems like a risky thing to assume about yourself since being wrong could be life altering.

I also take exception to the articles emphasis that moving on to cigarettes is the only real risk. Yes, that's where the majority of the health problems come from. But don't underestimate the negative consequences of a physical addiction, even one that does not lead to health problems. It is not fun to be addicted to anything that contorts your body and mind outside of your control.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#155

Post by fwungy »

I've used 2mg nicotine gum as a mental clarity aid for years. It's cheap, effective, and harmless AFAIK.

I have stopped using it for months at a time and never has any withdrawal symptoms. Caffeine otoh is addictive for me and will cause withdrawal symptoms if I indulge too often. The caffeine buzz can make me jittery and increase ADHD type behaviors for me. Ymmv.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#156

Post by vGPU »

egnehots wrote: post #11

I'm concerned that many might miss the nuance and subtlety of the main issue: - Nicotine IS really addictive when distributed through common uses (smoking, vaping). Yes, if the absorption is progressive and in small dosages, the addiction is less severe, but this is not useful for smokers who want to quit and presents a dangerous introduction for others

Not particularly. Pure nicotine in and of itself is significantly less addictive than the form presented in a cigarette. Modern big tobacco has managed to create an incredibly nasty and addictive chemical slurry in a stick, with acetaldehyde, ammonia, MAOIs, and a bunch of other chemicals which significantly increase the addictiveness of nicotine.

Gwern has noted the same in his post:

> Wikipedia summarizes Guillem et al 2005 as “Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties” - the addictiveness coming from MAOIs (eg. Khalil et al 2000, Khalil et al 2006) & possibly other compounds present in tobacco

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#157

Post by insanitybit »

edgyquant wrote: post #122
insanitybit wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I shouldn't have to try heroin to understand this. A solid paper on the topic would suffice.

No it wouldn’t unless you can consistently reproduce any found results among differing populations and I have serious doubts such a paper, with said follow ups, exists.

OK, then I'm going to go with "doesn't sound true"...

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#158

Post by jddj »

abecedarius wrote: post #116
steeleyespan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some studies suggesting nordic Snus (like all natural chew w/o chemicals added) is fairly harmless. Anecdotally I've read people highly addicted to it, so very suspicious of any claim that nicotine itself isn't addictive and just smoking is.

Does snus have much flavor? I've wondered if the psychological part of nicotine addiction is much stronger when there's a smell/taste association with the drug effect. (I'm not a smoker, just seen a couple hints suggesting this.)

It does. It has a slight burning sensation on the gum (salt?) and has an earthy / spiced flavour.

You don't taste it much unless you consume beer/coffee/water at the same, but if so the right brands and combinations can be quite pleasant.

They also make menthol ones.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#159

Post by arcanemachiner »

iteygib wrote: post #8

I use nicotine gum (2mg) to concentrate on reading or programming tasks from time to time. I have never smoked. I prefer it over caffeine as I do no get the irritable withdrawals. The only noticeable side affect I experience is some sleepiness after the effect wears off (around 30-40 minutes).

I am going to ignore this recommendation, despite my temptation. :/

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#160

Post by [deleted] »

insanitybit wrote: post #125
justsomehnguy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people can't understand why they aren't feeling well after 1kg of pasta with meatballs. I love caffeine and coffee , but if we are talking about well-feeling, 5 minute calistenics would make you feel better in 99% compared to a cup of sugar laden cappuccino

None of that is relevant. Caffeine has a blatant cognitive effect.

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