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Nicotine (2016)

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Re: Nicotine (2016)

#241

Post by iteygib »

bilsbie wrote: post #198
plexman wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the stimulant property is felt less if you are not used to nicotine. You would notice a lot more of the dizziness/light-headedness. But on the other side it could be just the fact that when you are hooked, you need it just to not feel the withdraw. As with some drugs this one can be used beneficially if well spaced (idk a full week, then 3m without it?). To me any use beyond this small period is just not…

I tried it once and got super dizzy. That’s a common occurance?

If nicotine gum makes you dizzy, then it's the dosage. 2mg is the smallest amount I have seen in gum. Over that, especially for the first time, is too much. It's like drinking a very large cup of coffee (100mg+ caffeine) if you have never had coffee before. You could feel sick.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#242

Post by PascLeRasc »

insanitybit wrote: post #157
edgyquant wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it wouldn’t unless you can consistently reproduce any found results among differing populations and I have serious doubts such a paper, with said follow ups, exists.

OK, then I'm going to go with "doesn't sound true"...

There needs to be a term for this mindset where people won't entertain a thought or idea unless there's a study proving that thought is correct in all cases. I can guarantee the person you responded to is a weightlifter.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#243

Post by briHass »

VHRanger wrote: post #235
sotix wrote: post #166

Is there any research into nicotine’s role in assisting those with ADHD? It’s a stimulant as the article points out, which many ADHD medications are as well of course. I’m curious if nicotine was (perhaps unintentionally) used in the 20th century to help those with ADHD stay focused on tasks and if an increase of diagnosed ADHD cases in the 21st century stems from its declined use or if it’s entirely due to other fac…

Dr. Russell Barkley has research on the topic if I'm not wrong. He says it's effective as a treatment for ADHD, but less than traditional stimulants, more prone to addiction and side effects. Also, despite the rest of the discussion in this thread, nicotine ITSELF is carcinogenic, regardless of the way it's ingested. Not something you want to take long run recurrently.

> nicotine ITSELF is carcinogenic

That has never been proven conclusively, even with hundreds of studies attempting to do so. At best (if one wants to assume it is a carcinogen), there's some plausible mechanisms where the contaminants/metabolites of nicotine (like NNN) can cause cancer, but there's zero evidence that consuming nicotine in a pure form and without pyrolysis (i.e. not e-cigs) causes cancer.

Heart disease is much more plausible: nicotine can raise blood pressure, narrow arteries, and increase pulse, like many other stimulants. Whether it has uniquely dangerous CVD risks compared to other stims is also far from conclusive.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#244

Post by rapjr9 »

api wrote: post #204
friend_and_foe wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to smoke cigarettes for many years. Over a decade. In the last few years of smoking, I tried to quit numerous times, trying to replace it with vaping because nicotine is what I'm addicted to, right? So I shouldn't have that hard a time, it's about breaking the physical habit not the drug addiction since I'm not quitting that. Often I would go a few months. The last failed attempt, withdrawals gave me panic att…

The obvious question is whether there are other addictive compounds in cigarettes. I’ve heard stories like yours before.

Do some web research on the additives in cigarettes. What I have heard from people who do research into cigarette addiction is that the additives suppress the bad effects of smoking (such as coughing, lungs feeling burnt, not being able to breath, etc.) When you stop smoking you also stop getting the additives and you suddenly feel all the damage smoking has been doing, which makes it much harder to quit. You literally feel like hell when you stop.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#245

Post by NobleLie »

standardUser wrote: post #215
bilsbie wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem pretty confident about this despite there being thousands of chemicals in cigarettes and presumably the companies being very interested in hooking their users.

Lots of people manage nicotine addiction with the patch or gum or vapes. None of those contain the chemicals in tobacco, but all of them sustain the addiction.

Do they?

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#246

Post by trogdor »

huytersd wrote: post #238
standardUser wrote: post #154

The addictive properties of nicotine aren't magic. It requires sustained, repeated consumption, like any physically addicting substances. And research has shown that different people have different propensities for addiction (same with cocaine and alcohol). But if you do become addicted to nicotine, and are one of the people with a high propensity for nicotine addiction, you're fucked. It's one of the most challengin…

Why are you fucked? Being addicted isn’t bad in itself. Nicotine by itself has very few ill effects on the body and there are plenty of way to only get pure nicotine (gum, patch, vaping with unflavored liquids)

Dependence on a drug is not necessarily bad. Addiction absolutely is.

Addiction (substance use disorder) exists when a person exhibits two or more of the following symptoms: (1) impaired control, (2) social problems, (3) risky use, and (4) physical dependence.

Impaired control means using more of a substance or more often than intended; or wanting to cut down or stop use but not being able to.

Social problems includes things like neglecting responsibilities and relationships, abandoning activities the person used to care about, or failing to fulfill obligations at home, school or work - because of the substance use.

Risky use includes things like using in risky settings, continued use despite known problems, engaging in risky substance-related practices like sharing needles, risky sexual activity (because of, or in order to obtain the drug), and driving while intoxicated.

Physical dependence is needing more of the substance to get the same effect, or having withdrawal symptoms when a substance isn't used.

Two or three symptoms indicate mild substance use disorder. Four or five symptoms indicate moderate, and six or more indicate severe substance use disorder. When people talk about addiction, they are typically referring to severe substance use disorder.

Physical dependence and tolerance are not the same as addiction. Substance use disorder is by definition problematic.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#247

Post by pitched »

insanitybit wrote: post #222
adrianN wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do sleep exercise and sunlight

I explicitly quoted "> Nothing after that really has as large of an effect."

For me, missing a night of sleep has a much, much larger cognitive effect than missing a cup of coffee. What I was trying to express was that the percent change is much higher, not that it’s infinite.

Trying to be more practical and a touch less sarcastic for a minute… I find, on average, I tend to get about two hours more work done on days where I spend at least 45 min in the gym and that includes the hour or more loss from the activity itself. Skipping caffeine on the other hand, doesn’t have any effect unless I’ve missed sleep the night before.

If you are thinking of dipping your toes into supplements though and don’t really want to exercise or sleep, I’ve found Creatine to be really helpful in that state. Definitely a stronger effect than caffeine but takes a lot longer to kick in!

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#248

Post by huytersd »

trogdor wrote: post #246
huytersd wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you fucked? Being addicted isn’t bad in itself. Nicotine by itself has very few ill effects on the body and there are plenty of way to only get pure nicotine (gum, patch, vaping with unflavored liquids)

Dependence on a drug is not necessarily bad. Addiction absolutely is. Addiction (substance use disorder) exists when a person exhibits two or more of the following symptoms: (1) impaired control, (2) social problems, (3) risky use, and (4) physical dependence. Impaired control means using more of a substance or more often than intended; or wanting to cut down or stop use but not being able to. Social problems include…

That’s just generic boilerplate addiction literature. None of those apply to nicotine. It’s cheap, legal and doesn’t have enough of an effect to be a public disorder risk. No one is committing domestic violence or impaired driving while being purely “hopped up on nicotine”. The most you might get is someone holding up a store to incidentally steal cigarettes while they go for what’s in the cash register, but that’s about it.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#249

Post by waveBidder »

hirvi74 wrote: post #228
waveBidder wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apparently stimulants behaving like depressants is something that may be associated with ADHD, so you may want to visit a psychiatrist.

I believe that is more dose dependent than ADHD dependent. I would imagine if you gave someone with ADHD enough stimulants, then that reaction would reverse. People commonly believe that stimulants affect people with ADHD differently than non-ADHD people, but I have never seen any research to back that up. It's merely just anecdotes, and I honestly think stimulants, like anything, just affect people differently regar…

Looks like the paradoxical effect Wikipedia page is more ambiguous about this than I had thought. the data there is pretty sparse there either way

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxical_reaction?wprov=sfl...

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#250

Post by fordholes »

donatj wrote: post #85

I agree very much with the addiction aspect being genetic. My mother has tried to quit cigarettes umpteen times and never been successful. Smokes multiple packs a day. My dad has smoked here and there my whole life but mostly in the summer. He'll go all 6 months of winter (Minnesota) without smoking not wanting to be in the cold and not wanting to smoke in the house. He never "needs" a smoke, unlike my mother. It's a…

Not sure re: genetics but I’ll say: I love smoking a cigarette, but I’ve never had problems not smoking for any length of time at all.

The same is not true for me with respect to alcohol, so it’s not like I’m especially immune to addiction. I just think specifically with smokes it’s not as simple as “everyone addicted always”. Which I’ve heard claimed.

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