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Nicotine (2016)

gwern.net

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Re: Nicotine (2016)

#221

Post by southernplaces7 »

standardUser wrote: post #154

The addictive properties of nicotine aren't magic. It requires sustained, repeated consumption, like any physically addicting substances. And research has shown that different people have different propensities for addiction (same with cocaine and alcohol). But if you do become addicted to nicotine, and are one of the people with a high propensity for nicotine addiction, you're fucked. It's one of the most challengin…

>As a former smoker, I can only believe that anyone who takes this risk does not fully appreciate the consequences.

That's the key thing there, "smoker". If you become addicted to nicotine via smoking tobacco, then you're possibly fucked, but nicotine by itself is nowhere near as dangerous for health, it even has some benefits for well-being.

I don't know why you take exception to some people or articles emphasizing the above, or that cigarettes are the major risk. It's mostly true and addiction by itself specifically to a cheap, easily available substance like nicotine, which doesn't devastate daily functionality or economic solvency as many other narcotics do, is not terrible by itself.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#224

Post by insanitybit »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #128
insanitybit wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't sound true.

Purely anecdotal, but I believe Keith Richards is on record stating that kicking heroin was far easier than kicking nicotine. There's evidence for this, too -- he quit using heroin decades ago, but only managed to quit smoking a few years back. So it seems to be true, at least for him.

That is not surprising.

a) The downsides to smoking are far longer term and harder to feel daily

b) You're surrounded by smokers, you can literally smell them smoking just by walking down the street

c) Smoking is legal. You can just go buy a pack.

I am unsurprised that quitting smoking is harder for some people, given that. But in terms of withdrawal symptoms, that's where I think heroin is probably worse. But I also don't really know. So far someone linked a Google search and an irrelevant paper.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#225

Post by hirvi74 »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #187

I occasionally suck on a 2mg nicotine lozenge when doing activities I want to encourage (Anki, low intensity stationary biking). Seems to work well for habit formation for me, and I never really feel the urge to use them outside of those contexts.

After reading Gwern's writings on nicotine some years back, I did a bit of research myself. I can't recall where I read this, but I did come across some anecdotal datum about a person using nicotine to help them workout.

However, that person was quite strict about their usage. He or she would only using nicotine when working out but never any other time. The reasoning was that nicotine helps in habit formation while active in one's system. So, hopefully the brain would crave working out because it would associate the reward of nicotine with working out.

I do not know how it turned out, but I thought that was an interesting idea. What if nicotine could be used to aid in forming healthy habits, and once the habits are established, nicotine could be weened out?

Do you think nicotine has any kind of similar effects for you?

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#226

Post by fwungy »

GordonS wrote: post #212
fwungy wrote: post #155

I've used 2mg nicotine gum as a mental clarity aid for years. It's cheap, effective, and harmless AFAIK. I have stopped using it for months at a time and never has any withdrawal symptoms. Caffeine otoh is addictive for me and will cause withdrawal symptoms if I indulge too often. The caffeine buzz can make me jittery and increase ADHD type behaviors for me. Ymmv.

You say it's harmless, but are there any negative health effects? (I seem to recall reading nicotine can cause thinning of the arteries, or something like that)

I've heard there are but haven't noticed anything personally.

Nicotine has antifungal and antimicrobial attributes. I have even seen studies claiming smokers were less likely to get serious covid infections likely due to some property of nicotine.

Native Americans treated tobacco as a sacred plant and praised it for all sorts of health and spiritual properties. That makes me think the plant and its consumption is probably a net benefit and it may be the way commercial cigarettes and tobacco are processed that cause the problems.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#228

Post by hirvi74 »

waveBidder wrote: post #167
aappleby wrote: post #148

Anecdata of one here- Non-smoker, originally tried nicotine vapes as an alternative to caffeine which I tend to overuse. Not very effective for me as I seem to have a paradoxical reaction to it that makes me want to take a nap for 5-10 minutes after inhaling, but I found the sensation was pleasurable when combined with cannabis edibles so I kept the vape around. Absolutely zero physical addiction. I can and have stop…

apparently stimulants behaving like depressants is something that may be associated with ADHD, so you may want to visit a psychiatrist.

I believe that is more dose dependent than ADHD dependent. I would imagine if you gave someone with ADHD enough stimulants, then that reaction would reverse.

People commonly believe that stimulants affect people with ADHD differently than non-ADHD people, but I have never seen any research to back that up. It's merely just anecdotes, and I honestly think stimulants, like anything, just affect people differently regardless of ADHD or not.

If anyone has data either way, I would love to see it.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#229

Post by rimunroe »

rimunroe wrote: post #24
djha-skin wrote: post #12

[flagged]

Even though I personally wouldn’t agree with them, I could understand why someone might think that nicotine or cannabis stuff isn’t relevant to this site, but how is Internet regulation stuff not?

Especially compared to this thing you submitted recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072433

I’m glad you shared that link here. It looks interesting, and fits with the general vibe in my opinion. I’d be interested to hear why that one is okay though and not any of the examples you listed

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#230

Post by kallistisoft »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #207
api wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious question is whether there are other addictive compounds in cigarettes. I’ve heard stories like yours before.

They say there are MAOIs in tobacco that increase nicotine uptake, but I'm not entirely convinced that that's the sole culprit either. I could chew some tobacco right now, or smoke a pipe or cigar, I could even inhale it, and I wouldn't have a problem. If I were to smoke a single cigarette I'd be smoking a pack a day within a week and who knows how many months or years it would take me to rectify that. Whatever it is…

Tobacco contains Harmaline which is an MAOI - it both increases the bioavailability of nicotine as well as adding an additional psychoactive effect; stimulant + anti-depressant

I've recently started adding free base harmaline to my vape juice to create a proper tobacco substitute... I found that nicotine alone didn't provide the relaxation that I would get from smoking tobacco. After a fair amount of research I discovered that it was that lack of harmala compounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmala_alkaloid

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