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Nicotine (2016)

gwern.net

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Re: Nicotine (2016)

#231

Post by ShamelessC »

vGPU wrote: post #161
vGPU wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not particularly. Pure nicotine in and of itself is significantly less addictive than the form presented in a cigarette. Modern big tobacco has managed to create an incredibly nasty and addictive chemical slurry in a stick, with acetaldehyde, ammonia, MAOIs, and a bunch of other chemicals which significantly increase the addictiveness of nicotine. Gwern has noted the same in his post: > Wikipedia summarizes Guillem e…

Gwern has noted the same in his post: > Wikipedia summarizes Guillem et al 2005 as “Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties” - the addictiveness coming from MAOIs (eg. Khalil et al 2000, Khalil et al 2006) & possibly other compounds present in tobacco

Gwern has noted the same in his post:

> Wikipedia summarizes Guillem et al 2005 as “Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties” - the addictiveness coming from MAOIs (eg. Khalil et al 2000, Khalil et al 2006) & possibly other compounds present in tobacco

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#232

Post by dieselgate »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #221
standardUser wrote: post #154

The addictive properties of nicotine aren't magic. It requires sustained, repeated consumption, like any physically addicting substances. And research has shown that different people have different propensities for addiction (same with cocaine and alcohol). But if you do become addicted to nicotine, and are one of the people with a high propensity for nicotine addiction, you're fucked. It's one of the most challengin…

>As a former smoker, I can only believe that anyone who takes this risk does not fully appreciate the consequences. That's the key thing there, "smoker". If you become addicted to nicotine via smoking tobacco, then you're possibly fucked, but nicotine by itself is nowhere near as dangerous for health, it even has some benefits for well-being. I don't know why you take exception to some people or articles emphasizing…

I understand what you're saying and have mixed feelings. My opinion is that a nicotine addiction is terrible no matter how it's consumed but smoking tobacco is the most harmful way to consume.

I was able to switch from chewing tobacco to nicotine pouches and gum but still feel the addiction is terrible.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#233

Post by dieselgate »

dageshi wrote: post #193
throwbadubadu wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former smoker I think you didn't fully read the article und understood author's and other's thesis that it is actually not the nicotine that makes for the strong cigarette addiction.

So I have some personal experience with nicotine in different formats. Cigars (not inhaled) and zyn packets you slip under your lip. My experience is that nicotine is highly addictive based on dosage and delivery. Cigars were in no way addictive, I suspect because the delivery of the nicotine takes quite a while. The zyn though, I quickly ramped up from low dosages (1-3mg) to the higest dosages (10mg+). And at my wor…

Strongly agree with the slow decrease method. One of the nice things about nicotine pouches/gum is they come pre-dosed so it's pretty simple in how to ramp down. Doing it is the tough part.

For more fine grained decreases I've used the 3mg, then 2mg, then split up pieces of nicotine gum (2 or 4 mg) to get down to like 1 and .5 mg doses.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#234

Post by dieselgate »

standardUser wrote: post #217
nrclark wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be overlooking a chemical conditioning element. A smoker gets a dopamine hit every time they take a pull from their cigarette. The smell, the sizzle, and the routine - all become associated with a reward pathway. Nicotine is the chemical that causes this, but the addiction is far more than just nicotine alone.

As I just said in another comment, the fact that people can maintain their nicotine addiction with vapes or patches or gum shows that the primary addictive substance is nicotine and it can be effectively addictive all by itself.

Do you have personal experience with a nicotine or tobacco addiction? Many of us may agree that nicotine is the _primary_ addictive substance but there are other considerations. It's not one size fit all and everyone is an individual.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#235

Post by VHRanger »

sotix wrote: post #166

Is there any research into nicotine’s role in assisting those with ADHD? It’s a stimulant as the article points out, which many ADHD medications are as well of course. I’m curious if nicotine was (perhaps unintentionally) used in the 20th century to help those with ADHD stay focused on tasks and if an increase of diagnosed ADHD cases in the 21st century stems from its declined use or if it’s entirely due to other fac…

Dr. Russell Barkley has research on the topic if I'm not wrong.

He says it's effective as a treatment for ADHD, but less than traditional stimulants, more prone to addiction and side effects.

Also, despite the rest of the discussion in this thread, nicotine ITSELF is carcinogenic, regardless of the way it's ingested. Not something you want to take long run recurrently.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#236

Post by bijant »

Nicotine has notable antipsychotic properties. I'm not aware of any longer term studies on the isolated side effects of nicotine. Longterm effects of anti-psychotics range from bad to terrible. Nicotine (if the mode of consumption is not smoking) is likely the anti-psychotic with the most beneficial side effect profile. Still I wonder whether there are significant cognitive or emotional effects of long time usage.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#237

Post by permo-w »

mock-possum wrote: post #181
permo-w wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone's a never-smoker until they're not. the sense I got with this article is that the author started with the presumption that nicotine from sources other than smoking is basically okay and built up from there. that's not to say that he's wrong, just that it didn't feel like a rational approach

To give an alternate perspective: smoking cigarettes is just an all around bad experience, it smells bad, it tastes bad, it hurts my throat, and for what? Light headedness, possibly with the spins? And the smell lingers it gets into everything, you basically need to change your clothes after you smoke a cigarette. I’m a non smoker period, and I can only assume this “oh everyone says they can’t get addicted to cigaret…

>I’m a non smoker period, and I can only assume this “oh everyone says they can’t get addicted to cigarettes until they start smoking” attitude can only be projection from hapless addicts. It just doesn’t work that way for me.

this is a bizarre assumption. first of all, no one said that everyone who hasn't smoked has a strong propensity, what I said was that everyone who has been addicted once wasn't. I myself have very little propensity towards addiction to nicotine and do not enjoy cigarettes. that doesn't mean that I think this talk of most "never-smokers" having little propensity towards addiction makes sense. everyone who has ever been addicted to nicotine was once a "never-smoker", and probably billions of people consume nicotine every day. those numbers tell the real story

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#238

Post by huytersd »

standardUser wrote: post #154

The addictive properties of nicotine aren't magic. It requires sustained, repeated consumption, like any physically addicting substances. And research has shown that different people have different propensities for addiction (same with cocaine and alcohol). But if you do become addicted to nicotine, and are one of the people with a high propensity for nicotine addiction, you're fucked. It's one of the most challengin…

Why are you fucked? Being addicted isn’t bad in itself. Nicotine by itself has very few ill effects on the body and there are plenty of way to only get pure nicotine (gum, patch, vaping with unflavored liquids)

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#240

Post by tommychillfiger »

donatj wrote: post #85

I agree very much with the addiction aspect being genetic. My mother has tried to quit cigarettes umpteen times and never been successful. Smokes multiple packs a day. My dad has smoked here and there my whole life but mostly in the summer. He'll go all 6 months of winter (Minnesota) without smoking not wanting to be in the cold and not wanting to smoke in the house. He never "needs" a smoke, unlike my mother. It's a…

A factor that I've slowly started to think is potentially very relevant is age of first habit formation. Not just a puff here or there, but the age at which you were first addicted. Extremely anecdotally, I have asked people and noticed that all of my friends who can't quit started much younger in their formative years than the types who can smoke a few when drinking every now and again but otherwise abstain with no issue.
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