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How to boss without being bossy

jeffwofford.com

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Re: How to boss without being bossy

#171

Post by habinero »

brandensilva wrote: post #167
habinero wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes down to cultural norms, really. Where I am, a plain brusque "Do this" is rude. You act that way to people you really dislike. So the social interaction is you come up to me and are deliberately hostile and then order me to do something. That's what you do to an employee you dislike and wish would quit. Obviously I'm capable of understanding different people communicate differently, and I can deal, but that's…

So does everything have to be phrased as a question for you to feel better about a request? Aka "Hey Jim, can you tackle this issue?"

That would be a neutral way to phrase it, yep.

It's less about the wording than the information it conveys, that you respect someone enough to talk to them politely and make the effort.

If it's hard to see the difference, would it make sense if I made an analogy? Your girlfriend texts you "call me? :)" vs. "Call me."

One is clearly flirty and in a good mood and the other could be angry? upset? urgent? The extra punctuation conveys information about how that person feels.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#172

Post by brandensilva »

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #128
JohnMakin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people absolutely cannot be managed that way or don’t hear “I need X” as a request to do X.

How about "I need X and the only person who can do it is you"?

It is interesting how this changes the tone.

"You will do this" no agency, no control, no considerations, skips calling out authority and goes direct

"Will you do this?" Direct, has agency but potentially confrontational if you say no

"I need you to do this" indicates their authority, direct, no control, could be inconsiderate to some as they overriding your priorities for their own

It can to be softened up with a question but if they really need you to do it I feel like your response also softens it up.

I think adding a acknowledgement of inconvenience, reason, urgency or explanation to it also helps.

"Hey Jim, I know you are working on X and this will be inconvenient for you but I need you to tackle Y" ideally a reason or compliment would be good too.

"I need you to do this because you have the most expertise on this and feel no one can do it well but you"

"I need you to do this right now. We are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars with the web server down" I feel this is an acceptable reason to demand to interrupt someone to take care of something that has a major impact on everyone

And for the life saving measures saying "I need you to evacuate this building immediately" is completely acceptable to me with no reason needed. Being butt hurt over a demand versus a kind request is better than dying.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#173

Post by lelanthran »

woooooo wrote: post #16
timeagain wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subjective it must be, if my boss talked like that it would give me flashbacks to entitled customers I had working in food service. Edit: to expand, the “I need” language has an implicit imperative. Since it is implicit, the listener/employee needs to internalize the command, and internalize the idea that the bosses “needs” are the employees “wants”. Maybe I’m psychologizing too much, but I haven’t ever met someone w…

I'd feel the same way if I heard it in food service. Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work. If I hear it in the context of both a knowledge job and a high-trust relationship it works way better for me, here is the problem and we need it solved.

>> entitled customers I had working in food service.

> I'd feel the same way if I heard it in food service. Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work.

Hang on, to you, "We need some paper towels at this table" equals "Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work"?

Just how sensitive are you and GP?

I've actually worked in food service, and a table telling me "we need some paper towels at our table" didn't trigger any negativity in me at all, nevermind the extreme PTSD sort of negativity that that sentence appears to trigger in you and GP.

TBH, if you're triggered by the phrase "We need some paper towels at this table", then you probably have ... some sort of condition?

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#174

Post by habinero »

habinero wrote: post #171
brandensilva wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does everything have to be phrased as a question for you to feel better about a request? Aka "Hey Jim, can you tackle this issue?"

That would be a neutral way to phrase it, yep. It's less about the wording than the information it conveys, that you respect someone enough to talk to them politely and make the effort. If it's hard to see the difference, would it make sense if I made an analogy? Your girlfriend texts you "call me? :)" vs. "Call me." One is clearly flirty and in a good mood and the other could be angry? upset? urgent? The extra punct…

Actually, I did something there without thinking about it.

I said "If X, would it be helpful if I did Y?" because I'm about to explain something basic and I don't want to sound condescending and treat you like you're stupid.

"If it's hard to see the difference" = "It seems like this might be true, but I don't want to assume that. This way I give us both an out if I misjudged something and I'm accidentally being condescending."

"would it be helpful if I" - "I am trying to be helpful and not fight and so I am offering this as a question, so you have the freedom to ask for clarification or to discount it if it's not helpful"

It's less about the words and more about the "I am trying to be helpful and avoid sounding like I think you're dumb, which I do not" meaning.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#175

Post by zoogeny »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #19

Anybody who says 'I need you to...' goes on the list, even if they are not actually talking to me myself. But more seriously: Ensure people know what and why something is important, ideally by arriving at that conclusion jointly and as part of an overarching plan that everyone can feel involved in - thus requests shouldn't be a surprise, they aren't coming from you so much as from the plan (nebulous though it may be)…

> Don't try to maintain 'superiority' by withholding information.

This is a lesson I learned and it now bothers me to no end if it ever happens to me. When decisions are made behind closed doors and then commands rain down from above then I feel rage.

One thing I often say to people who I am responsible to lead is that they don't always have to agree but they need to understand. It is impossible for people to understand if information is kept from them. Even worse is if you try to fake compliance through faux-understanding using disinformation or by selectively editing information.

Another thing I do is plainly recognize when someone is being asked to do something they won't like. Understanding works here, but so does some empathy. You can both understand why the unpleasant task is required to achieve the goal and acknowledge the fact that the person tasked with the duty has a right to their feelings.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#176

Post by happytiger »

siva7 wrote: post #99
Paul-Craft wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good tech leaders generally don’t command: they inspire. Ding ding ding! You win the prize. The way I always put this to people is that "if dictating worked, there'd be a lot more dictators in the world." > Good tech leaders influence, guide, and grow people. They are honest and authentic. > The management style I have seen work the best is when people act in a real, genuine and sincere ways that are true to who th…

Those kind of leaders are very rare. There are not enough available on the market

Only because the current management culture doesn’t understand, encourage or do anything to create them.

Generally it’s very difficult to survive as a good manager in most large enterprises as the culture is toxic. And that culture is because of poor leadership at the top — CEO culture in American companies is divested of human sensitivity and deeply entrenched in exploitative ethos. “You got to do what you got to do.” It’s simply not true and many founder lead companies prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that companies don’t have to be run the way they do. But that’s the collective belief of the Harvard Business reading crowd.

The wage issues, environmental externalities, and people’s failing faith in the economically-driven society that has been so successful for so long reveals a system out of balance.

These are all management and leadership failures, be it inside of corporations or government. Few workers inside of the system glow about their bosses or the effectiveness of their leadership teams. And many that do only do so because of the contrast to terrible leadership they have experienced.

So I agree with you that there is a dearth of good leadership. What can we do about it?

It’s certainly much better than it was 20 years ago.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#177

Post by vacuity »

gnicholas wrote: post #54
cmclaughlin wrote: post #4

Here's how my wife does it... "Do you want to take out the trash?" My engineer mind interprets it literally every time :) Usually I don't mind taking out the trash... but occasionally I don't really want to. I have to always translate this to "She wants me to take out the trash".

Weird, people usually talk favorably about garbage collection on HN.

As a member of the Rust Evangelism Strike Force, please point me to these people so we can have a, ahem, civil conversation.

/garfield

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#178

Post by xepriot »

throwaway914 wrote: post #18
xepriot wrote: post #12

Neuroticising over how to word your commands (polite requests) is slave mindset, and such a person who does this is not a 'leader'. What makes a leader is not how you word things. But almost nobody walking around in corporate america has an inspiringly authoritative personality, and you can't make yourself into one very easily, so retarded articles like this are the best they can do. If you are a leader, then when yo…

I agree. You don't dispense vitriol, but people are way more willing to follow instructions from a perceived leader than we tend to believe. It's not worth splitting hairs to finaggle every word to sound delicate and kind. If you assume authority, and you aren't outright malevolent, you can usually tell someone: I need you to take out the trash.

You have to (nonverbally; perhaps with your whole personality) get them to understand and agree that it is good for them to take out the trash, and to trust your intentions, and that your leadership generally is also good and worthy of trust

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#179

Post by Jeff_Brown »

brandensilva wrote: post #172
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about "I need X and the only person who can do it is you"?

It is interesting how this changes the tone. "You will do this" no agency, no control, no considerations, skips calling out authority and goes direct "Will you do this?" Direct, has agency but potentially confrontational if you say no "I need you to do this" indicates their authority, direct, no control, could be inconsiderate to some as they overriding your priorities for their own It can to be softened up with a qu…

Haha yes, "I need you to evacuate" is certainly no good -- but "evacuate; this building is burning and you will be trapped soon otherwise" is much better than "evacuate". People who grow used to urgent-sounding requests are likely to blow them off.

I once got fired for not doing something the way the boss wanted, because at my previous job we did it the opposite way. He had explained that he wanted me to do it, but didn't say why, so I didn't remember. I too find that when I ask someone to do something, they're much more likely to do it right if I explain why, not just how. (Getting the method wrong is different from ignoring the request, but they both spring from the same underlying phenomenon -- we are likely to discard information if we don't know why to heed it.)

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#180

Post by buggyipadmettoo »

happytiger wrote: post #55

Good tech leaders generally don’t command: they inspire. And when you’re at the point where you’re trying to figure out the “right way to say things” you’ve already, utterly, failed. Good tech leaders influence, guide, and grow people. They are honest and authentic . The management style I have seen work the best is when people act in a real, genuine and sincere ways that are true to who they are as individuals and a…

Agree.

Ive owned several businesses and probably hired about 100 people in my life. Ive never commanded a single one.

These are voluntary relationships. I’m paying for their services. I don’t command the waitress to bring me a drink, and she doesn’t command me to pay her.

Why would I ever issue a command? Either you’re choosing to work with me, in which case you want to provide me with your service, or we’re not working together.

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