How to boss without being bossy • Hacker News Board

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#11

Post by woooooo » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 12:39 AM UTC

IsaacL wrote: post #8

This is a terrible article that rambles on for far too long without offering an actually polite way to tell/request someone to do something. These are the best approaches: 1. "Please take out the trash." 2. "The trash needs to be taken out. Can you do it?" 3. (If there are several people around). "The trash needs to be taken out. Who can do it?" Extra consideration: I'm assuming this refers to a context where there's…

"Best" has to be subjective here?

My personal favorite, combo of 2 listed, would he "I need X to happen"

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#12

Post by xepriot » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 12:44 AM UTC

Neuroticising over how to word your commands (polite requests) is slave mindset, and such a person who does this is not a 'leader'. What makes a leader is not how you word things. But almost nobody walking around in corporate america has an inspiringly authoritative personality, and you can't make yourself into one very easily, so retarded articles like this are the best they can do.

If you are a leader, then when you simply say 'go do this', the follower actually wants to do it and does not care about how carefully you handle their feelings.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#13

Post by timeagain » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 12:47 AM UTC

woooooo wrote: post #11

IsaacL wrote: post #8

This is a terrible article that rambles on for far too long without offering an actually polite way to tell/request someone to do something. These are the best approaches: 1. "Please take out the trash." 2. "The trash needs to be taken out. Can you do it?" 3. (If there are several people around). "The trash needs to be taken out. Who can do it?" Extra consideration: I'm assuming this refers to a context where there's…

"Best" has to be subjective here? My personal favorite, combo of 2 listed, would he "I need X to happen"

Subjective it must be, if my boss talked like that it would give me flashbacks to entitled customers I had working in food service.

Edit: to expand, the “I need” language has an implicit imperative. Since it is implicit, the listener/employee needs to internalize the command, and internalize the idea that the bosses “needs” are the employees “wants”. Maybe I’m psychologizing too much, but I haven’t ever met someone who talked like that who I could get along with. A baby cries when it needs something, mommy responds. As adults we should handle our own needs by turning them into actions to fulfill them ourselves or requests to have others fulfill them.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#14

Post by Waterluvian » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 12:55 AM UTC

timeagain wrote: post #13

woooooo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Best" has to be subjective here? My personal favorite, combo of 2 listed, would he "I need X to happen"

Subjective it must be, if my boss talked like that it would give me flashbacks to entitled customers I had working in food service. Edit: to expand, the “I need” language has an implicit imperative. Since it is implicit, the listener/employee needs to internalize the command, and internalize the idea that the bosses “needs” are the employees “wants”. Maybe I’m psychologizing too much, but I haven’t ever met someone w…

It also suggests people work for the boss and satisfy the bosses needs. The boss is a leader and organizer, not a master, satisfying the needs of the project/team/company.

“The trash needs to be taken out. (who wants to | can you) take responsibility for getting it done?”

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#15

Post by happytoexplain » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 12:56 AM UTC

xepriot wrote: post #12

Neuroticising over how to word your commands (polite requests) is slave mindset, and such a person who does this is not a 'leader'. What makes a leader is not how you word things. But almost nobody walking around in corporate america has an inspiringly authoritative personality, and you can't make yourself into one very easily, so retarded articles like this are the best they can do. If you are a leader, then when yo…

>If you are a leader, then when you simply say 'go do this', the follower actually wants to do it and does not care about how carefully you handle their feelings.

Nope, communicating with humans is the same art whether you think you are a leader or not. Some cultures have a strong sense of hierarchy, which in their business interactions is expressed in the petty, demeaning game of "act like a sycophant insect to those above you and treat those below you as pawns to be commanded", which has the same effect as what you're describing, but civilized people tend to reject that.

Edit: Note that this is not a defense of the article, which starts off incorrect at sentence one. It's easy to confuse the concept of a command hierarchy, like a military, and a cooperation hierarchy, which is the way a healthy business operates (though this is perhaps the minority of businesses, because a command hierarchy is more effective if your employees mostly don't give a shit or are miserable or incompetent, any of which problems may or may not be their fault).

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#16

Post by woooooo » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 1:00 AM UTC

timeagain wrote: post #13

woooooo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Best" has to be subjective here? My personal favorite, combo of 2 listed, would he "I need X to happen"

Subjective it must be, if my boss talked like that it would give me flashbacks to entitled customers I had working in food service. Edit: to expand, the “I need” language has an implicit imperative. Since it is implicit, the listener/employee needs to internalize the command, and internalize the idea that the bosses “needs” are the employees “wants”. Maybe I’m psychologizing too much, but I haven’t ever met someone w…

I'd feel the same way if I heard it in food service. Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work.

If I hear it in the context of both a knowledge job and a high-trust relationship it works way better for me, here is the problem and we need it solved.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#17

Post by romanhn » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 1:13 AM UTC

IsaacL wrote: post #8

This is a terrible article that rambles on for far too long without offering an actually polite way to tell/request someone to do something. These are the best approaches: 1. "Please take out the trash." 2. "The trash needs to be taken out. Can you do it?" 3. (If there are several people around). "The trash needs to be taken out. Who can do it?" Extra consideration: I'm assuming this refers to a context where there's…

#3 is actually unlikely to be effective due to the well-studied bystander effect (everyone stands around hoping someone else will help). Asking a concrete person is much more likely to get it done.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#18

Post by throwaway914 » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 1:18 AM UTC

xepriot wrote: post #12

Neuroticising over how to word your commands (polite requests) is slave mindset, and such a person who does this is not a 'leader'. What makes a leader is not how you word things. But almost nobody walking around in corporate america has an inspiringly authoritative personality, and you can't make yourself into one very easily, so retarded articles like this are the best they can do. If you are a leader, then when yo…

I agree. You don't dispense vitriol, but people are way more willing to follow instructions from a perceived leader than we tend to believe. It's not worth splitting hairs to finaggle every word to sound delicate and kind. If you assume authority, and you aren't outright malevolent, you can usually tell someone:

I need you to take out the trash.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#19

Post by somewhereoutth » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 1:24 AM UTC

Anybody who says 'I need you to...' goes on the list, even if they are not actually talking to me myself.

But more seriously:

Ensure people know what and why something is important, ideally by arriving at that conclusion jointly and as part of an overarching plan that everyone can feel involved in - thus requests shouldn't be a surprise, they aren't coming from you so much as from the plan (nebulous though it may be).

Don't try to maintain 'superiority' by withholding information.

Show consideration for other pressures that somebody might be under.

Listen when they say no.

Close the loop so that good results get back to the person who did the thing.

Handle bad results in the same way that the NTSB deals with plane crashes - find the flaws in the system instead of somebody to blame.

Be ready to help out others as they have helped out you.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#20

Post by User23 » Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 1:48 AM UTC

cmclaughlin wrote: post #4

Here's how my wife does it... "Do you want to take out the trash?" My engineer mind interprets it literally every time :) Usually I don't mind taking out the trash... but occasionally I don't really want to. I have to always translate this to "She wants me to take out the trash".

“No.”