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Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

theguardian.com

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Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#61

Post by dontlaugh »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #39
dontlaugh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Charter school" doesn't mean the same thing in different English speaking countries.

The English Wikipedia page for “charter school” specifically talks about friskola as an example of one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school#Sweden

Wikipedia is using the US meaning of the word for some reason.

I'm don't think translating "firskola" to UK English as "charter school" would be correct, just like no one uses the term "charter school" to refer to institutions in the UK.

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#62

Post by somewhereoutth »

sampo wrote: post #34
somewhereoutth wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For clarity: Public schools - a handful of top level very expensive private schools, usually have existed for centuries, the children of the highest levels of society tend to go there, a great foundation for a career in public life. Examples include Eton, Harrow, Winchester, Marlborough. Private schools - the rest of the private schools, less expensive, but less advantageous. State schools - free, provided by the sta…

How do you get your child into one of those public shcool? Do you need money, or connections, or does the child need be talented? (The Wikipedia article didn't tell.)

It helps if you can trace your ancestors back to the Norman invasion (the winning side, obviously). I'm only half joking.

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#63

Post by red-iron-pine »

coryrc wrote: post #30
kristopolous wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically the neoliberal story. I can't fathom for the life of me how people committed to historical concrete analysis can continue to advocate for these schemes. They always end up in exploitation. People's commitment to ideologies seem to be stronger than any material evidence.

Then you don't live in or near school districts failing to educate their students for decades: Detroit, Baltimore, even parts of Seattle fail to graduate young people capable of reading and writing near grade level, let alone understand even algebra. Year-after-year they fail a new class.

these are in high-crime areas with very specific demographics. make of that what you will.

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#64

Post by coryrc »

soco wrote: post #54
coryrc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you don't live in or near school districts failing to educate their students for decades: Detroit, Baltimore, even parts of Seattle fail to graduate young people capable of reading and writing near grade level, let alone understand even algebra. Year-after-year they fail a new class.

And the solution would be to go to a tuition school, where the quality could be the same but grades higher because customer is king? No, it's not a solution, because there's no implicit causal relationship between tuition and quality - the Swedes just described their situation in the title. The real solution is to fix the failing school, whatever system it was.

Ah, thank you, I don't think anyone's tried to fix the failing schools before, so if they just get started on that this whole voucher thing is unnecessary.

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#65

Post by mynameisvlad »

dontlaugh wrote: post #61
mynameisvlad wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The English Wikipedia page for “charter school” specifically talks about friskola as an example of one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school#Sweden

Wikipedia is using the US meaning of the word for some reason. I'm don't think translating "firskola" to UK English as "charter school" would be correct, just like no one uses the term "charter school" to refer to institutions in the UK.

Maybe because it’s the common definition of the world for majority of English speakers. The UK is not the end all be all of the English language. Something can be a common term everywhere else in the world.

If nobody ever uses the term in the UK, then why would its definition matter or be different?

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#66

Post by kristopolous »

coryrc wrote: post #64
soco wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the solution would be to go to a tuition school, where the quality could be the same but grades higher because customer is king? No, it's not a solution, because there's no implicit causal relationship between tuition and quality - the Swedes just described their situation in the title. The real solution is to fix the failing school, whatever system it was.

Ah, thank you, I don't think anyone's tried to fix the failing schools before, so if they just get started on that this whole voucher thing is unnecessary.

I think a more honest analysis would not only look at other educational systems in other countries but use a unified metric, say, euclidean geometry or algebra comprehension, something that you can roll back the clock 60 years on and still get comparable data.

There's a multi armed bandit problem here of course but the law of large numbers should allow you to isolate what effect marketization has.

I'd be shocked if it was positive. Human motivation is sullied and distracted by profit so the actual goals become incidental. If the alignment is close, like in commodities, it's all good. If it's poorly related, such as in education, it seems to be a problem.

Privatization works poorly as a blunt magical instrument wielded on all problems

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#67

Post by dontlaugh »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #65
dontlaugh wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is using the US meaning of the word for some reason. I'm don't think translating "firskola" to UK English as "charter school" would be correct, just like no one uses the term "charter school" to refer to institutions in the UK.

Maybe because it’s the common definition of the world for majority of English speakers. The UK is not the end all be all of the English language. Something can be a common term everywhere else in the world. If nobody ever uses the term in the UK, then why would its definition matter or be different?

English is a second language for many Europeans and we tend to use the British variant.

It matters because the original title was changed to a term only popular in one country.

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#68

Post by littlestymaar »

coryrc wrote: post #64
soco wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the solution would be to go to a tuition school, where the quality could be the same but grades higher because customer is king? No, it's not a solution, because there's no implicit causal relationship between tuition and quality - the Swedes just described their situation in the title. The real solution is to fix the failing school, whatever system it was.

Ah, thank you, I don't think anyone's tried to fix the failing schools before, so if they just get started on that this whole voucher thing is unnecessary.

Sweden school system didn't particularly need to be fixed, especially if you compare it to peer European states.

The voucher stuff was introduced for ideological reasons, and failed like things rooted in ideology invariably do, no matter if the inspiration is Marx or Adam Smith.

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#69

Post by mynameisvlad »

dontlaugh wrote: post #67
mynameisvlad wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because it’s the common definition of the world for majority of English speakers. The UK is not the end all be all of the English language. Something can be a common term everywhere else in the world. If nobody ever uses the term in the UK, then why would its definition matter or be different?

English is a second language for many Europeans and we tend to use the British variant. It matters because the original title was changed to a term only popular in one country.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/charter-...

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/eng...

There is only one definition. If someone doesn’t know the term, they can look it up. Your original comment claimed that it means different things in different countries, but that just doesn’t seem to be the case. The term seems like the appropriate English translation, even if it doesn’t exist in the UK.

Re: Sweden's schools minister declares charter school 'system failure'

#70

Post by dontlaugh »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #69
dontlaugh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is a second language for many Europeans and we tend to use the British variant. It matters because the original title was changed to a term only popular in one country.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/charter-... https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/eng... There is only one definition. If someone doesn’t know the term, they can look it up. Your original comment claimed that it means different things in different countries, but that just doesn’t seem to be the case. The term seems like the appropriate English translation, even if it doesn’t exi…

Or the original translation from the article in a UK newspaper could be kept, by just keeping the original title.
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