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Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

macworld.com

311–320 of 409 posts

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#311
Since when does the price of a product relate to the cost of the BOM?

I mean, for many Intel CPUs, they're literally exactly the same products off the manufacturing line that are just binned differently, despite significant price differences in the market.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#312
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple geeks eating up and justifying anything and everything that apple throws at them is hilarious to see. It takes 50-60$ for a 8GB stick and people justifying that 200$ markup because Apple needs to make profit too. Is it Stockholm syndrome I dont know.

I dislike Apple - especially the way they rewrite history to remove Commodore/ Spectrum/Acorn/Atari - is disgraceful. HOWEVER, my M1 Air (with 8GB RAM) has and continues to be a great little machine for web browsing, email, Discord and writing. It can comes in clutch occasionally for coding. Value? No, it's not great value. I bought a $500 Lenovo with 1TB SSD and 16GB RAM as a backup machine and the only areas where…

You are off in a parallel universe if sleep mode on your Mac is a failing comparison point here.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#313

8GB RAM would be enough. If not companies searched and found a successor for Flash. Is is Electron! It wastes memory, it is slow, it doesn’t integrate to Linux, Windows and MacOS and it allows to deploy bloated JavaScript locally. But it is cheap for them! Basically the target of companies is avoiding to employ programmers for native applications. These people cost money. And optimization cost money. So they opt to w…

It's not the point, but it doesn't hurt that, at least on macOS the 'real native' APIs are... terrible! SwiftUI only just got rounded borders this year https://stackoverflow.com/questions/71744888/swiftui-view-wi... . People here complain about CSS, but that's been a platform feature since like 2003. On Windows the UI toolkit story is just as much of a pain, with microsoft reinventing the toolkit every other year, an…

Oh. Microsoft invents new APIs and don’t maintain them. Win32, MFC, WinForms, WPF, WTL, WinUI - What is the next? Therefore Windows looks like a patchwork and is hard to use. And half of the UI is literally still Win2k. For applications by others anyway no rules exist.

Linux? Gtk and Qt are maintained for years. They deprecate the old stuff and then a new major release is published. While the old release is maintained and they even care about keeping Gtk3 and Gtk2 aligend and bugs fixed. People complain about upgrades - but actually there are updates and upgrades.

PS: Don’t mention Silverlight.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in the market for a new Macbook. Should I get the M2 instead of the M3? The base M2 had 16GB RAM

> I’m in the market for a new Macbook. Should I get the M2 instead of the M3? Yes, especially if you were considering a low-end M3 model. Also consider a MacBook Air, which are great.

The MBP has a very nice screen including HDR, if you care about that. M2 vs M3 - no idea. I have a M1 and it's great.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#315
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why I said normal office workers and students. Costing 9 hundos a piece, Air is not something a regular company would buy for their employees. They're more likely to buy a budget laptop in the 400-500 range which you can bet will do just fine for office work, and you can always upgrade it if necessary. If a company really does need their employees to work a Mac, they will have to cough out a lot more for the…

When I was in college, I interned as IT support at a large corporation. We were buying $1200 Lenovos for normal office workers and $2000 laptop workstations for the design engineers. You'd be surprised at how much money enterprises spend on each laptop. I happen to think that the enterprise is an untapped market for Macs. Not tech offices. Other industries that run on Lenovos and Dells. If I'm a small business, I sti…

> I'd buy $750 M1 Airs. They last longer, "just work", and have fewer support issues.

As an employee of a company that runs macbook fleets, hell no they don't. Every other year we have had to replace half our inventory because of the 2015 macbooks having faulty batteries that want to explode, and then the next generations being that terrible keyboard, where every single employee needed their entire top cover replaced at least once because the keyboard didn't even last a year.

Meanwhile at my previous company which ran those boring ugly dell "workstation" laptops with the fat ass batteries, Entire generations of older workstations were still in inventory because they just didn't die, and were stupidly easy to repair, and you didn't have to send them away for a month for something like "my N key doesn't work anymore" or "the battery we gave you will burn your house down"

I just don't get how people say "Macs are reliable", because the only laptops less reliable than my work macbooks have been a series of cost reduced dell laptops that screws would literally fall out of, except even when that happened, dell would send someone to come fix it the next day, in your home!

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#316
post #245
post #181

I think the best reaction would be shame. Just a big round of shame for a trillion dollar company being so greedy to cripple their top equipment. Tech’s stagnated for over a decade and largely because of greed and at the expense of innovation. Prove me wrong? Do something genuinely new, like a mass produced cpu on germanium. Make a modern OS that’s a successor to unix-and plan9. Edit-Or at least a moddable iphone tha…

Good luck! People have been trying to shame Apple for their premium pricing since the day they started selling computers, and it has never done a thing to change their strategy nor sales. I think the issue is that a lot of tech people don’t fully understand what Apple is selling, what value is there, and why it appeals to so many consumers, despite whatever reasons we think we have. Nobody needs to prove you wrong, b…

> ... it has never done a thing to change their strategy nor sales.

Look up their Mac sales figure - it's down. And I do believe it is because consumers aren't stupid and recognize that the new Macs have planned obsolescence built-in with their soldered RAM and SSDs.

The Gaslighting is also high with Apple claiming that their "8GB equals 16GB" because they are Apple:

> Comparing our memory to other system's memory actually isn't equivalent, because of the fact that we have such an efficient use of memory, and we use memory compression, and we have a unified memory architecture. Actually, 8GB on an M3 MacBook Pro is probably analogous to 16GB on other systems. We just happen to be able to use it much more efficiently. - https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/08/8gb-ram-m3-macbook-pro-...

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why I said normal office workers and students. What? NO. 8GB is not enough for browsing and the proliferation of Electron apps these days. The solution shouldn't be constantly swapping, which is what all 8GB Apple devices do. This will lead to early SSD death and since the SSD is soldered on, that means the entire device is useless.

Well, Apple has been using SSDs for a long time now. Do you know Mac users personally where the SSD died before something else in the computer?

You can search this very forum where we posted stories when the M1s first came out, that they were churning through several percentage points of the life of the SSD within just a couple months. I think that was caused by a bug however

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#318
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tech’s stagnated for over a decade I don’t know where to begin with this, but on topic, the M1 came out in 2020 and was a big tech leap in how PCs are done. Sure, all the individual technologies within existed elsewhere first. But Apple executed and delivered great products.

There was a time in the late 90s and early aughts when by the time you've unboxed your new computer it's already out of date. I'm sure it was even more so in the 80's into the 90's, but that's a little before my time. We have not really had a quantum leap in the last 20 years. Even longer. Apple's M-series chips are the closest we've gotten in recent times I think.

My new computer's got the clocks, it rocks

But it was obsolete before I opened the box

You say you've had your desktop for over a week?

Throw that junk away, man, it's an antique

Your laptop is a month old? Well that's great

If you could use a nice, heavy paperweight

https://youtu.be/qpMvS1Q1sos?si=kbkY4H6nepvB7I0o

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#319
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On a slightly related note: $/GB for RAM hit a wall starting in 2011 Now that's just disingenuous, it's a log scale and it shows that memory prices fell 40% from 2012 to 2022. Apple charges $200 to upgrade M1 Macbook Air from 8GB to 16GB. A comparable 8GB stick of DDR4-3600 costs $25 retail.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. The RAM is (or extremely close to being) part of the package. A stick of RAM is a commodity part. The M-series package isn’t.

Which explains why they had the exact same RAM upgrade pricing since the mid 2000s when they were using off the shelf Intel processors right? It's basically always been $200 extra dollars for the next step up above base for Apple RAM, even when they were user replaceable sticks that you could find compatible commodity versions of!

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, this is not what the lowest-end Mac laptop is for. If you know you're going to be running Docker, and you buy a computer with 8GB of RAM, I'm afraid I have very little sympathy for you. You should know exactly what you're going to get.

This thread was started with "When I started my current job they gave me an M1 Mac with 8GB...", which is the main point, in a professional environment the person responsible for purchasing new machines might not even know about these requirements, or will likely believe that the developer just wants a nicer machine for no reason, when others in the office use the base model without a problem.

Then I sympathize, but it's no more Apple's fault than it would be Google's if the people responsible for purchasing new machines had bought them a Chromebook.
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