I'll add to the chorus of folks that is somewhat baffled that 8GB is not enough. That is a ton of memory.
The iPhone 15 Pro that launched some months ago has 8G
8G is paltry on a desktop computer that should last years.
Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
231–240 of 409 posts
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#232I'll add to the chorus of folks that is somewhat baffled that 8GB is not enough. That is a ton of memory.
Honestly Apple holding the line on memory probably helps pressure developers to optimise.
When people say they need 16gb of ram to have a browser with 200 tabs, a chat messaging program, and an audio player I really wonder what they're smoking. That could be done on maybe 4gb, 8gb would make it easier to handle things like tabs with high resolution video.
You only NEED ram for what is actively being used. If you aren't actively using 199 tabs, you don't need them in memory.
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Manufacturers should be regulated to force them offer upgradeable RAM. Disagreed. You can't make RAM upgradeable and have unified memory architecture that makes Apple Silicon good. Let's not regulate technology like this. There were studies done that showed most people do not upgrade their RAM/storage even though they could. They just bought new computers. I can't find them now but you could probably find them if y…
> You can't make RAM upgradeable and have unified memory architecture Silicon Graphics did it in the 90s, x86 laptops do something similar but it's not true UMA AFAIU mostly due to software / graphics API limitations. > that makes Apple Silicon good. Good interplay between CPU and GPU, the major advantage of UMA, does nothing for raw CPU performance. What I find attractive about Apple silicon is that it has very high…
> Soldered RAM can be somewhat higher speed and lower energy than replaceable
Can we have one piece of soldered RAM and one slot to add more RAM later on though? (at the cost of possibly unmatched speed and other stuff that happens when you mix and match RAM as you like)
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#234The problem I have with 16GB as a upgrade is that the base model is widely available and often on sale. 16GB does exist as preconfigured option, but it is a lot harder to come by. It's mainly sold as BTO, which means you have to pay full price. That makes that extra 8GB of RAM ridiculously expensive. I mean it's already ridiculously expensive, but the fact that base models sell with huge discounts increases it even f…
Yep, I faced this same issue when I bought an M2 Air early March. The 16GB BTO upgrade was roughly 40% more expensive compared to the discounted base 8GB model.
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well... yeah, your behavior is that of someone who has Stockholm syndrome. I'm not saying this to be hostile, but there's a world of difference between "I accept this because it's the best option for me despite the drawbacks" and "I don't mind getting price gouged because the big tech company has to make money somehow". We all make business decisions that aren't ideal (because we have to), but you don't need to lick…
So disagreeing with someone else’s behaviour when choosing their tech means they have Stockholm syndrome? No, you may not think you’re being hostile, but you are.
> So disagreeing with someone else’s behaviour when choosing their tech means they have Stockholm syndrome?
No, they perfectly explained why that isn't the case. Please read the post carefully instead of knee jerk responding.
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#236Having these amounts of RAM on the base models hurt walk-in retail customers as well. Recently I had a computer die and luckily my boss found some extra funds in our budget that needed to be spent ASAP. I had an opportune moment to get a machine that day, but only if I could walk into the Apple Store and get it off the shelf. I settled for less RAM than I would have liked because a "custom order" would have taken wee…
I bought my 16GB MacBook Air from a store. And FWIW, vendors like B&H and others regularly stock high-spec Macs that you can get overnight.
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
> running docker on a dev instance is not Why? This is what Docker is for.
The point is, this is not what the lowest-end Mac laptop is for. If you know you're going to be running Docker, and you buy a computer with 8GB of RAM, I'm afraid I have very little sympathy for you. You should know exactly what you're going to get.
This thread was started with "When I started my current job they gave me an M1 Mac with 8GB...", which is the main point, in a professional environment the person responsible for purchasing new machines might not even know about these requirements, or will likely believe that the developer just wants a nicer machine for no reason, when others in the office use the base model without a problem.
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#238I'll add to the chorus of folks that is somewhat baffled that 8GB is not enough. That is a ton of memory.
The iPhone 15 Pro that launched some months ago has 8G 8G is paltry on a desktop computer that should last years.
I have a 2016 Macbook pro, and I don't think I've ever seen it use more than 8GB (I have 16GB RAM). Just testing now with chrome tabs open including weather radar, libreoffice, and firefox, and still using just under 8GB RAM and 1GB swap.
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it's not. A ton of programs used by regular people (Chrome etc.) are RAM hogs, if you are a dev, then Docker is also an egregious example. If you happen to play games (a big thing for average people), that 8GB will be shared between the CPU and the GPU. Even the Steam Deck, admittedly a budget device, comes with 16GB. It's often mentioned that macOS is more frugal with RAM, a claim which I flat out found to be unt…
> I regularly saw Dock and Finder leak and eat gigabytes of RAM each Make sure to view "Real mem" in Activity Monitor. That's the amount of data actually stored in your RAM, the rest being swapped out. That number can be quite small, even for apps that theoretically use a lot of memory. I have found Docker to be an "actual" memory hog with not much of it being swapped out, but could imagine that it would be possible…
I don't know how macOS manages memory or reports its use, but how does the data having been swapped out change anything? If N pages of data of those processes have been swapped out, that means those processes have allocated and used that many pages of memory (plus any that are actually in RAM). The OS heuristics just decided it wasn't worthwhile to keep those particular pages in RAM under current circumstances.
If the processes just allocated a lot of memory and never touched it, it might be reasonable to say they don't actually use it because the OS might never actually reserve any physical resources for it. (Happens a lot e.g. in Linux with memory overcommit allowed by default and some processes allocating dozens of gigabytes of virtual memory, most of which they never actually use.)
But would those pages then count towards swap use either? Only dirty pages end up in swap. Unless macOS counts allocated but untouched pages towards used swap as committed resources.
edit: better wording
Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it
#240I think the best reaction would be shame. Just a big round of shame for a trillion dollar company being so greedy to cripple their top equipment. Tech’s stagnated for over a decade and largely because of greed and at the expense of innovation. Prove me wrong? Do something genuinely new, like a mass produced cpu on germanium. Make a modern OS that’s a successor to unix-and plan9. Edit-Or at least a moddable iphone tha…
> The company is the problem here
The author feigns indignance at Apple's margins, as if the only possible purpose for that markup is to line the pockets of Apple execs. But this isn't pure profit for Apple. Apple develops feature and security updates which they make available for free (at the point of use) for years to their hardware customers. The significant hardware markup is what enables this!
Contrast this to companies that sell hardware at cost. You find phones and laptops crammed with programs to collect and monetize your data, and zero security or driver updates.
A company that charges full price up front is at least in a position to afford to be able to do the right thing by users.