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You Win or You Learn

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Re: You Win or You Learn

#201

Post by evanelias »

jchw wrote: post #197
evanelias wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's expected given Twitter leans more towards text content. The proportion of Tumblr posts that are images or video has always been much higher than Twitter's. Twitter didn't even have built-in photo posts until mid 2011, and even then it was through a third-party integration with Photobucket for the first year. Images weren't shown inline in the Twitter timeline feed until late 2013! Meanwhile direct video upload…

What I'm trying to say is, to me, that just generally sounds like a pretty large share of adult content no matter how you shake it. I could be over-estimating, but I'd assume it outpaces all of the other major social media platforms and most websites of similar magnitude in general that do allow pornographic content but are not explicitly porn sites.

OK, but I'm not understanding your point. I mean it's all relative. Go back 10-15 years earlier and a very large percentage of uuencoded files uploaded to Usenet were adult content. That doesn't mean NNTP or uuencode were primarily for porn.

On the web, similar situation for DeviantArt and a lot of other sites.

Re: You Win or You Learn

#202

Post by jchw »

evanelias wrote: post #201
jchw wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm trying to say is, to me, that just generally sounds like a pretty large share of adult content no matter how you shake it. I could be over-estimating, but I'd assume it outpaces all of the other major social media platforms and most websites of similar magnitude in general that do allow pornographic content but are not explicitly porn sites.

OK, but I'm not understanding your point. I mean it's all relative. Go back 10-15 years earlier and a very large percentage of uuencoded files uploaded to Usenet were adult content. That doesn't mean NNTP or uuencode were primarily for porn. On the web, similar situation for DeviantArt and a lot of other sites.

Exactly. I always assumed porn's role in Tumblr was a bit exaggerated, but actually it seems like it really was pretty big, especially considering that we're talking about something that was far, far, far more mainstream than Usenet. (and thus at least in my mind, you'd expect it to be smaller by percentage.)

> DeviantArt

Of course it's complicated. DeviantArt never really allowed pornographic content, but obviously it wound up with a lot of fetish content that blurred the lines regardless. DeviantArt is basically a case study all on its own.

Re: You Win or You Learn

#203

Post by gspencley »

jchw wrote: post #193
gspencley wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't disagree with the bulk of your comment, it's worth noting that PornHub / MindGeek didn't just shoot themselves in the foot but hurt the entire industry when there were numerous videos of missing teens and underage content found on their site. I say this as someone who ran an adult website for 18 years, in Canada, until suddenly our bank informed us that they were closing our commercial accounts and we c…

Here's my problem. > numerous I dug into one such report that broke and apparently it was around 30 videos that they had found. When I checked Pornhub, I believe it currently had over 20,000 videos, and that was presumably after they'd been under quite a bit of scrutiny. IMO there is quite a mismatch in magnitude there. Of course, there probably were other illicit videos, but there is no reason, in my opinion, to sug…

> , but there is no reason, in my opinion, to suggest that Pornhub had an unusually large problem.

How many videos or images of child exploitation are required before it becomes an "unusually large problem" ?

Again, as someone who worked in the industry, I can't even begin to tell you how fucking paranoid and diligent we were about that. One single instance would have been enough to shut us down and possibly land us in jail. Not to mention the ethics of it which are paramount! This was to the extent where I was never even comfortable with the concept of user-provided / generated content being hosted and distributed on/by my web servers at all.

PornHub played with fire. They didn't just burn themselves, they burned all of us.

It would have only taken ONE instance! Two becomes "numerous" by definition. But one would have been enough.

I actually can't believe that you're trying to downplay the severity of what was at stake. I'm not typically one to be all "think of the children", but this is that one case where it really is literally that and most people don't find the level of diligence that I'm describing as being at all unreasonable.

I mean you're basically saying "they only murdered like 3 people ... and were pretty good about making sure they didn't murder more... hardly 'numerous.'" And if you don't think that child sexual exploitation is on a similar level in terms of severity of the crime then I don't want to know you.

Re: You Win or You Learn

#205

Post by jchw »

gspencley wrote: post #203
jchw wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my problem. > numerous I dug into one such report that broke and apparently it was around 30 videos that they had found. When I checked Pornhub, I believe it currently had over 20,000 videos, and that was presumably after they'd been under quite a bit of scrutiny. IMO there is quite a mismatch in magnitude there. Of course, there probably were other illicit videos, but there is no reason, in my opinion, to sug…

> , but there is no reason, in my opinion, to suggest that Pornhub had an unusually large problem. How many videos or images of child exploitation are required before it becomes an "unusually large problem" ? Again, as someone who worked in the industry, I can't even begin to tell you how fucking paranoid and diligent we were about that. One single instance would have been enough to shut us down and possibly land us…

> I mean you're basically saying "they only murdered like 3 people ... and were pretty good about making sure they didn't murder more... hardly 'numerous.'" And if you don't think that child sexual exploitation is on a similar level in terms of severity of the crime then I don't want to know you.

This is absolutely insane logic. Pornhub didn't commit the crime. Did you know murder happens every day? A lot more than three times.

Perfect moderation is impossible. You're saying that they would have to have a success rate of 99.99+% at catching this, when again, it can be nearly impossible to actually tell just by looking.

What exactly do you expect them to have done? What exactly do you think Twitter does?

Are you really suggesting that because this stuff exists and is impossible to prevent with 100% success, no website should ever allow user generated pornographic content without having some rigorous and highly invasive process for validating each video's provenance? (Not that it matters: doing this kind of thing will just make backchannels the defacto channels. Not a good outcome for improving enforcement overall.)

(Come to think of it, if this is the actual logic of someone who worked in the adult entertainment industry, then I no longer have any difficulty understanding how dystopian chat/encryption/social media legislation manages to continue to be proposed and sometimes even become law.)

Re: You Win or You Learn

#206

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

armchairhacker wrote: post #72

It seems like social medias, from a financial perspective, are more commonly bad than good. Out of all the mainstream social medias I know, these ones seem to be losing money (or at least aren't generating "enough" profit): - Twitter: halved in value in 1 year - Tumblr - Reddit: stated it wasn't doing well when it increased the API price - YouTube: seems to not be doing well because it's trying to push adds and incre…

Does Substack count as social media? How are they doing?

Re: You Win or You Learn

#207

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

autokad wrote: post #76
MissTake wrote: post #49

Sign of the times. Another classic name from the earlier days on the intertubes may be about to vanish.

I guess I feel old because tumbler feels like one of the 'newer' sites, as it came out about 2007 - when the great migration to facebook started. to me, 'early days' means 1995-2005

I miss the days of AIM and "Skype Me". Simpler, more innocent times.

Re: You Win or You Learn

#208

Post by travisjungroth »

Alex3917 wrote: post #138
citruscomputing wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. Now why does it consistently happen for images where no underwear is visible, and why doesn't it happen for cis women? Why are appeals not granted? And why didn't staff even acknowledge there's a problem?

No idea. I’ve never worked at any of these companies, I just learned this in an academic conference presentation on ethnographic research into OnlyFans users. OnlyFans doesn’t have its on recommendation system, so users need to find their customers on instagram, Twitter, tumblr, etc.

> OnlyFans doesn’t have its on recommendation system

This is by far the most mind-blowing thing about OnlyFans to me. I’m a very open minded person and I would have been so sure that a site like OnlyFans would absolutely require discovery. Like, so sure that if I was making it, I wouldn’t even question including it. The fact they just offloaded this to every other site, and then took all the monetization is amazing to me. Twitter, Reddit and Instagram can barely get money from these users, but they’re super popular, and they just link to their OnlyFans on their profile.

I seriously wonder what other opportunities like that are out in the wild.

Re: You Win or You Learn

#209

Post by eastbound »

Clamchop wrote: post #95
Eumenes wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think the millions of hours of widely available online porno has any impact on our culture or how people view sex? It's incredibly ignorant to think that "evangelical Christians" are the only ones opposed to porn

You've raised a question and assumed what the answer is. Has society been affected by accessible porn? If so, to what degree? Of the ways it was affected, which were positive and which were negative? On the whole, is it harmful? They're good questions but I doubt the answers are simple.

Has it been studied? Can you ask rhetorical questions if we genuinely don’t have studies for the answers?

Re: You Win or You Learn

#210

Post by eastbound »

phpisthebest wrote: post #104
Eumenes wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WHO recognizes "porn addiction" so its not some conspiracy theory. Not that I trust the WHO. Looks like porn is available for sale, possession, and production in almost all Christian majority nations, but not Islamic ones - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_laws_by_region

>>so its not some conspiracy theory. I can not think of legitimate organization that is more filled with conspiracy theory than the UN.. so citing "well this UN organization says it so it can be conspiracy" is very ironic

Are you saying the Covid is fake?
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