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Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#121

Post by hajile »

wholinator2 wrote: post #116
gosub100 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

contrast that to Jobs' "use my private jet to get first dibs on a healthy liver so I can try alternative medicine and die anyway"

I don't know all the specifics of jobs journey but a terminal cancer diagnosis does things to one's mind. My mother took every medical intervention offered her and by the end she was very much wishing she hadn't. Certain techniques the medical field has developed have the effect of really only prolonging the suffering at the very end of life. The whole family including her was begging god to end our suffering, for mo…

He had a contained, super-slow growing pancreatic cancer with a high-90s survival rate if he got his pancreas removed.

Instead, he waited years until it had metastasized everywhere and it was too late simply because he couldn't bear the though of someone cutting on him. They then did a far more massive surgery on a fool's errand trying to cut it out of all the places it had gone.

Then he paid off a transplant foundation to get a liver that he definitely shouldn't have gotten meaning someone else died so he could get a transplant then die anyway.

He's quite a contrast to Woz IMO.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#122

Post by TeMPOraL »

2devnull wrote: post #119
Gud wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immortality yes, it is a curse, the option to choose your own time of death, no, it is not a curse.

Thanks for knowing what immortality means.

You get no points for knowing one meaning in a dictionary definition of the word, where it's obvious the discussion is about a different meaning.

That's like saying Rails isn't good scaffolding for a web service, because they're made of steel and are meant for trains.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#123

Post by fastball »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #86
TeMPOraL wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extended to the limit, it's a fair point, but this type of thinking is arguably far from common-sense (since it's uncommon for people to engage in universe-scale hypotheticals), and arguably a problem for the future - i.e. for when we start outgrowing the galaxy or something.

It's not a problem for the future, it's where we are at now until sufficiently advanced technology (or sufficiently peaceful international relations) intervenes.

Ok but if you're goal is actually some form of altruism, wouldn't keeping a clearly innovative person around forever be more useful than rolling your dice with whoever is taking his spot? Statistically, they are going to be not as useful (depending on your definition of useful of course).

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#124

Post by jodrellblank »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #79
tourist2d wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you asked the population if they would want immortality, the common answer wouldn't be "no".

According to surveys your intuition is wrong. USA: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/americans-... > Researchers from the university separated respondents into three groups, based on age. One group was younger people, between the ages of 18 and 29, another group of senior citizens whose average age was 72, and a third group made up of individuals whose average age was 88. 18 - 29: 34% Yes, 40% No, 26%…

I wonder how many of those people who want immortality currently avoid smoking, drinking, drugs, air pollution, junk food, get long sleep every night and regular exercise - all those things that are much easier than immortality and can meaningfully increase the chances of adding one, two, three decades of quality life.

And then avoid social media, clickbait, ragebait, idling, gossipping, and live in a deliberate and conscious way to make the best use of their time (best according to their own metrics).

(Given that 66% of people are overweight, seeing 59% say they would like immortality suggests there's overlap. Not that I'm preaching, I don't do much of that stuff, and there is argument to want immortality to fritter away on enjoyments and relaxing and that maybe people are unhealthy because they are 'driving it like they stole it' for their limited time - but it's possible to play the finite lifetime cards we're dealt a lot better than than most of us do, without even getting to extremes and maximising things).

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#125

Post by fastball »

2devnull wrote: post #117
krisoft wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immortality being a curse is a common trope. The silliness of the trope starts with the notion that once you have gone immortal you can't go back. Somehow you are stuck yearning for the sweet release of death. In reality life is extremely fragile, maintaining the right conditions to support it requires constant effort. There is no reason to think that any future scientific advance will alter this fundamental fact.…

You have substituted immortality with being able to live as long as you want. Fair enough, but you’re just changing the premise. The word immortality has a specific meaning, even if you don’t like what it is.

There are many definitions of immortality. The Oxford definition is "the ability to live forever; eternal life."

That seems to jive with GC's point. The definition is the ability to live forever, not the requirement to live forever.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#126

Post by olifante »

gosub100 wrote: post #111
upwardbound wrote: post #68

Woz is one of the most selfless people I've ever met. At a conference he keynoted for (SynBioBeta), he said that even if immortality were available to him, he wouldn't want to live forever, because he'd be taking up a spot in the Earth's population carrying capacity, and even if that's just one spot of many billions, he wouldn't feel right taking up that spot, when he's already lived his life and now it's time for so…

contrast that to Jobs' "use my private jet to get first dibs on a healthy liver so I can try alternative medicine and die anyway"

This constant vilification of one of the great figures of tech history is tiresome. Yeah, maybe Steve Jobs was not a great person, but why should constantly overshadow his tremendous successes?

Steve Jobs was a forceful and perhaps disagreeable character, but he is one of the clearest examples of how having relentless drive and taste can change the world. Focus less on the feet of clay and more on the giant.

And not to diminish Wozniak’s tremendous achievements, but Steve Jobs continuously innovated over the course of decades and had a much greater impact on the world.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#127

Post by swader999 »

dghughes wrote: post #101
ljm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really a death wish? Immortality being a curse is a common trope. Hell, even surviving to 90 or 100 can be its own kind of hell for those whose life is being unnaturally preserved for the sake of those who can't or won't let go.

I'm 54 and I can't stand most of people and society now or at least here in what is mainly US/Canada. I can't imagine what it would be like at 100 if I make it that far.

Is it what you see online or what you see in one on one interactions? I would guess this feeling is mostly based on what you see online. If that's the case, ask yourself if that's useful to feel this way about it.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#128

Post by gosub100 »

olifante wrote: post #126
gosub100 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

contrast that to Jobs' "use my private jet to get first dibs on a healthy liver so I can try alternative medicine and die anyway"

This constant vilification of one of the great figures of tech history is tiresome. Yeah, maybe Steve Jobs was not a great person, but why should constantly overshadow his tremendous successes? Steve Jobs was a forceful and perhaps disagreeable character, but he is one of the clearest examples of how having relentless drive and taste can change the world. Focus less on the feet of clay and more on the giant. And not…

It's not about Jobs, its about the life of an anonymous person who would have got that organ but died long ago on the transplant list because he didn't have a private jet. There are other people besides Steve Jobs.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#129

Post by upwardbound »

jojobas wrote: post #97
schiffern wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we can't grow exponentially forever! We can't grow exponentially forever in space either . Somehow this gets forgotten. O(N^t) > O(t^3), for all N > 1 Here t^3 is the future light-cone of Earth, ie this assumes [trans]humanity expands at the speed of light and instantly colonizes all matter. This is an optimistic upper bound IMO.

Something something heat death of the universe.

I do hope that our civilization starts someday putting substantial research funding into moonshot bets to escape this limiting ending.

For example, if we eventually have multiple star systems' worth of resources at our disposal, then I hope we put at least a trillion dollars per topic into long-shot research topics such as time travel, the multiverse, FTL travel, methods of creating new universes via an artificial Big Bang, applied theology (trying to find evidence of a God so that we can communicate with them), methods of achieving infinitely positive states of qualia such as something like nirvāṇa, and so on.

Each bet might be 1 in a million - but I'd much rather that we try every possible chance at escaping what we currently see as the inevitable, and not go gentle into that heat death night.

This goal, to break through the wall at the end of the universe, was what Asimov called for in his inspiring short story The Last Question.

https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~gamvrosi/thelastq.html

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#130

Post by upwardbound »

renegade-otter wrote: post #114
kome wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising to me that such an obviously common-sense viewpoint is being treated as if it's extraordinary. Nonetheless, it's commendable that he hasn't succumbed to the delusions of grandeur and immortality.

It's probably NOT that uncommon, but modern civilization allows so many creature comforts for the ultra-rich that they feel literally in heaven. They get the best of everything, almost instantly. Luxurious cars, an army of help, private planes, the latest technology, privacy and large mansions, beautiful partners, and the non-stop adulation and drooling over by the public. It's trivial to develop the god complex with…

> Wozniak's point of view is very uncommon in the rarefied slice of the population that he inhabits.

Exactly.

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