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Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#111

Post by gosub100 »

upwardbound wrote: post #68

Woz is one of the most selfless people I've ever met. At a conference he keynoted for (SynBioBeta), he said that even if immortality were available to him, he wouldn't want to live forever, because he'd be taking up a spot in the Earth's population carrying capacity, and even if that's just one spot of many billions, he wouldn't feel right taking up that spot, when he's already lived his life and now it's time for so…

contrast that to Jobs' "use my private jet to get first dibs on a healthy liver so I can try alternative medicine and die anyway"

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#112

Post by OfSanguineFire »

mschuster91 wrote: post #87
TeMPOraL wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so common-sense about it? Or even commendable? Earth's carrying capacity is a problem to be solved, there are many viable solutions that can be executed in parallel, and it doesn't really sound like a big challenge relative to getting life extension working in the first place. Really, it's just bewildering to me that having a death wish is considered common-sense, normal viewpoint.

> Earth's carrying capacity is a problem to be solved It's not getting solved though, it's getting worse day by day because of climate change making increasingly large amounts of space uninhabitable, soil erosion, the aftereffects of pollution with all kinds of crap (PFAS, microplastics, nitrates from fertilizer runoff, ...) and over-exploitation below replacement levels (e.g. in fish). > there are many viable soluti…

All the problems you describe are problems of biosphere carrying capacity. If technological advancement continued to the point that humans transcended biology, we would no longer need soil or fish, suffer from PFAS or nitrate pollution, etc. Now, I am not suggesting this is any imminent development myself, I only pointing out that it is very often viewed as part of the "problem to be solved".

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#113

Post by sgu999 »

dghughes wrote: post #101
ljm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really a death wish? Immortality being a curse is a common trope. Hell, even surviving to 90 or 100 can be its own kind of hell for those whose life is being unnaturally preserved for the sake of those who can't or won't let go.

I'm 54 and I can't stand most of people and society now or at least here in what is mainly US/Canada. I can't imagine what it would be like at 100 if I make it that far.

> I can't imagine what it would be like at 100 if I make it that far.

The few elderly I know of who approached that age and were reflective enough told me they just ended up letting go. And they were actually happier.

Being sufficiently well-off is probably helping ;)

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#114

Post by renegade-otter »

kome wrote: post #73
upwardbound wrote: post #68

Woz is one of the most selfless people I've ever met. At a conference he keynoted for (SynBioBeta), he said that even if immortality were available to him, he wouldn't want to live forever, because he'd be taking up a spot in the Earth's population carrying capacity, and even if that's just one spot of many billions, he wouldn't feel right taking up that spot, when he's already lived his life and now it's time for so…

It's surprising to me that such an obviously common-sense viewpoint is being treated as if it's extraordinary. Nonetheless, it's commendable that he hasn't succumbed to the delusions of grandeur and immortality.

It's probably NOT that uncommon, but modern civilization allows so many creature comforts for the ultra-rich that they feel literally in heaven. They get the best of everything, almost instantly. Luxurious cars, an army of help, private planes, the latest technology, privacy and large mansions, beautiful partners, and the non-stop adulation and drooling over by the public.

It's trivial to develop the god complex with that kind of life and the desire to prolong it as much as possible. They know what they have, and they want to keep it forever. Why hedge on the unproven promise of eternal life if you can live in paradise already?

https://theweek.com/science/the-billionaire-led-quest-for-im...

Not surprisingly, it's the kind of people who, if allowed to eternally accumulate wealth and power, will eventually cause catastrophic damage to humanity if they feel not adored enough. Many don't even need multiple lifetimes do get there.

Wozniak's point of view is very uncommon in the rarefied slice of the population that he inhabits.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#115

Post by mschuster91 »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #112
mschuster91 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Earth's carrying capacity is a problem to be solved It's not getting solved though, it's getting worse day by day because of climate change making increasingly large amounts of space uninhabitable, soil erosion, the aftereffects of pollution with all kinds of crap (PFAS, microplastics, nitrates from fertilizer runoff, ...) and over-exploitation below replacement levels (e.g. in fish). > there are many viable soluti…

All the problems you describe are problems of biosphere carrying capacity. If technological advancement continued to the point that humans transcended biology, we would no longer need soil or fish, suffer from PFAS or nitrate pollution, etc. Now, I am not suggesting this is any imminent development myself, I only pointing out that it is very often viewed as part of the "problem to be solved".

> If technological advancement continued to the point that humans transcended biology

That's a few decades in the future at least, but biodiversity and climate change is on a way faster scale.

That's the problem with the futurist mindset in a large part of tech culture - we need action now.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#116

Post by wholinator2 »

gosub100 wrote: post #111
upwardbound wrote: post #68

Woz is one of the most selfless people I've ever met. At a conference he keynoted for (SynBioBeta), he said that even if immortality were available to him, he wouldn't want to live forever, because he'd be taking up a spot in the Earth's population carrying capacity, and even if that's just one spot of many billions, he wouldn't feel right taking up that spot, when he's already lived his life and now it's time for so…

contrast that to Jobs' "use my private jet to get first dibs on a healthy liver so I can try alternative medicine and die anyway"

I don't know all the specifics of jobs journey but a terminal cancer diagnosis does things to one's mind. My mother took every medical intervention offered her and by the end she was very much wishing she hadn't. Certain techniques the medical field has developed have the effect of really only prolonging the suffering at the very end of life. The whole family including her was begging god to end our suffering, for months.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#117

Post by 2devnull »

krisoft wrote: post #94
ljm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really a death wish? Immortality being a curse is a common trope. Hell, even surviving to 90 or 100 can be its own kind of hell for those whose life is being unnaturally preserved for the sake of those who can't or won't let go.

> Immortality being a curse is a common trope. The silliness of the trope starts with the notion that once you have gone immortal you can't go back. Somehow you are stuck yearning for the sweet release of death. In reality life is extremely fragile, maintaining the right conditions to support it requires constant effort. There is no reason to think that any future scientific advance will alter this fundamental fact.…

You have substituted immortality with being able to live as long as you want. Fair enough, but you’re just changing the premise. The word immortality has a specific meaning, even if you don’t like what it is.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#118

Post by oblio »

wholinator2 wrote: post #116
gosub100 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

contrast that to Jobs' "use my private jet to get first dibs on a healthy liver so I can try alternative medicine and die anyway"

I don't know all the specifics of jobs journey but a terminal cancer diagnosis does things to one's mind. My mother took every medical intervention offered her and by the end she was very much wishing she hadn't. Certain techniques the medical field has developed have the effect of really only prolonging the suffering at the very end of life. The whole family including her was begging god to end our suffering, for mo…

He didn't start with a terminal cancer diagnosis. He ended up with one because he didn't do what he was supposed to do, when he was supposed to do it.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#119

Post by 2devnull »

Gud wrote: post #93
ljm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really a death wish? Immortality being a curse is a common trope. Hell, even surviving to 90 or 100 can be its own kind of hell for those whose life is being unnaturally preserved for the sake of those who can't or won't let go.

Immortality yes, it is a curse, the option to choose your own time of death, no, it is not a curse.

Thanks for knowing what immortality means.

Re: Steve Wozniak suffers minor stroke

#120

Post by bena »

Hoasi wrote: post #109
krisoft wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immortality being a curse is a common trope. The silliness of the trope starts with the notion that once you have gone immortal you can't go back. Somehow you are stuck yearning for the sweet release of death. In reality life is extremely fragile, maintaining the right conditions to support it requires constant effort. There is no reason to think that any future scientific advance will alter this fundamental fact.…

> Also, "forever" doesn't happen all at once. Give me immortality, and then check in with me yearly if I still want it. I will let you know once I'm over it. Immortality as a subscription service—brilliant!

Also kind of a trope. It's a minor plot point in Sandman. Morpheus and someone else were arguing about immortality and how eventually we would all tire of life. So they grant a random guy immortality for as long as he wanted. Every so often, Morpheus checks up on him to see if he's ready to die yet. And he never is. In good times, he's enjoying it too much. In bad times, all he desires is to change his fortune.
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