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How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

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Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#651

Post by carimura »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #636
carimura wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wikipedia is like academia it's a closed system where a small group get to decide what opinions are correct, what facts get a mention and what are worth looking at with a feedback loop to itself that is used to control facts by deciding what sources are valid Came here to say this. 98% of the content is perfectly fine. Searching for "lemurs" in any search engine returns a perfectly trustworthy (calling all lemur ex…

I'm actually very curios about this. Can you link to an example of a clear position? I ask because I'm thinking it may be that, as political discourse becomes more polarized, it is conceivable that a mostly neutral article is perceived as biased in the wrong direction by both camps. So if you can find a good example of what you have in mind, it would be really helpful to examine it and see what might be going on.

Specific examples just incite a never-ending low-fidelity Internet debate that I'd really prefer not to get into, but despite my hesitation, I'll risk suggesting that you search for blog posts by the co-founder of Wikipedia Larry Sanger.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#652

Post by exo-pla-net »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #650
exo-pla-net wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Larry Sanger is now a conspiracy theorist [1], believing gems including: - Antifa did the coup. - Face masks are harmful. - There have been "almost zero" deaths from COVID-19. - Soros may have paid people to riot for George Floyd. - The Ten Commandments were God's words: not "inspired", but precisely dictated. [2] Since Wikipedia is hostile to conspiracy theories and religious woo, Larry has in the ensuing years trie…

> Face masks are harmful Searching that sentence verbatim on Google produces, as a first result, a paper on the National Library of Medicine [1] that states in its abstract: > Extended mask-wearing by the general population could lead to relevant effects and consequences in many medical fields. How is that a conspiracy theory? At most, you can argue that it's not absolutely conclusive or that other studies reach diff…

> These symptoms were accompanied by a sensation of heat (p Heaven forbid! It's almost comical how certain people furrow for the tiniest of cherries to support their antivaxx, antimask knee jerking while their bodies get submitted to a gauntlet of health risks from contracting COVID.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#653

Post by zymhan »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #650
exo-pla-net wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Larry Sanger is now a conspiracy theorist [1], believing gems including: - Antifa did the coup. - Face masks are harmful. - There have been "almost zero" deaths from COVID-19. - Soros may have paid people to riot for George Floyd. - The Ten Commandments were God's words: not "inspired", but precisely dictated. [2] Since Wikipedia is hostile to conspiracy theories and religious woo, Larry has in the ensuing years trie…

> Face masks are harmful Searching that sentence verbatim on Google produces, as a first result, a paper on the National Library of Medicine [1] that states in its abstract: > Extended mask-wearing by the general population could lead to relevant effects and consequences in many medical fields. How is that a conspiracy theory? At most, you can argue that it's not absolutely conclusive or that other studies reach diff…

You should really read your sources a little more closely:

> As a library, NLM provides access to scientific literature. Inclusion in an NLM database does not imply endorsement of, or agreement with, the contents by NLM or the National Institutes of Health.

That's a banner at the top of the page.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#654

Post by kornhole »

bawolff wrote: post #514
esafak wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expand that: Wikipedia's greatness is due to its policies and guidelines in general. It is not surprising that they were drafted by a second-time encyclopedist and PhD in epistemology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Sanger The next best thought out knowledge-based site is StackExchange.

The flip side of that is larry sanger's post-wikipedia success record is very bad and quite frankly a bit nutty.

You can see a full recent interview with Larry here https://rumble.com/v33nemd-system-update-121.html

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#655

Post by kornhole »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #650
exo-pla-net wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Larry Sanger is now a conspiracy theorist [1], believing gems including: - Antifa did the coup. - Face masks are harmful. - There have been "almost zero" deaths from COVID-19. - Soros may have paid people to riot for George Floyd. - The Ten Commandments were God's words: not "inspired", but precisely dictated. [2] Since Wikipedia is hostile to conspiracy theories and religious woo, Larry has in the ensuing years trie…

> Face masks are harmful Searching that sentence verbatim on Google produces, as a first result, a paper on the National Library of Medicine [1] that states in its abstract: > Extended mask-wearing by the general population could lead to relevant effects and consequences in many medical fields. How is that a conspiracy theory? At most, you can argue that it's not absolutely conclusive or that other studies reach diff…

> How is that a conspiracy theory?

I think some people consider information contrary to that communicated by government officials to be conspiracy theory: If the government didn't tell us the truth about something, they conspired to tell us something untrue.

By this definition of conspiracy theory, anybody who is not a conspiracy theorist is credulous. I proudly call myself a conspiracy theorist AKA skeptic.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#656

Post by js8 »

suoduandao3 wrote: post #649
js8 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you improve the operation of the worker-owned company, you will get rewarded just like any other employee who improves things. If you want to improve things by doing things on your own, you will own the fruits of your labor. If you need additional employees to improve things, then you will probably have to share with them.

How is owning the fruits of your labour different from capitalism again? Something about how other people's labour is priced?

No, it has nothing to do with price of labor (although in socialism there is no labor market), and everything to do with removing subjugation of others due to ownership of private property.

In socialism, if you want other people to help you build the company, you have to do so on equal terms, by giving them equal stake in ownership. That doesn't mean you don't own fruits of your labor.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#657

Post by graphe »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #652
DeusExMachina wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Face masks are harmful Searching that sentence verbatim on Google produces, as a first result, a paper on the National Library of Medicine [1] that states in its abstract: > Extended mask-wearing by the general population could lead to relevant effects and consequences in many medical fields. How is that a conspiracy theory? At most, you can argue that it's not absolutely conclusive or that other studies reach diff…

> These symptoms were accompanied by a sensation of heat (p Heaven forbid! It's almost comical how certain people furrow for the tiniest of cherries to support their antivaxx, antimask knee jerking while their bodies get submitted to a gauntlet of health risks from contracting COVID.

Vaccines provide immunity. Which vaccine are you referring to? Flu shots for example are not vaccines. There are no COVID vaccines.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#658

Post by Swenrekcah »

carimura wrote: post #651
Swenrekcah wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually very curios about this. Can you link to an example of a clear position? I ask because I'm thinking it may be that, as political discourse becomes more polarized, it is conceivable that a mostly neutral article is perceived as biased in the wrong direction by both camps. So if you can find a good example of what you have in mind, it would be really helpful to examine it and see what might be going on.

Specific examples just incite a never-ending low-fidelity Internet debate that I'd really prefer not to get into, but despite my hesitation, I'll risk suggesting that you search for blog posts by the co-founder of Wikipedia Larry Sanger.

Ok, thanks

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#660

Post by thiagoharry »

suoduandao3 wrote: post #649
js8 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you improve the operation of the worker-owned company, you will get rewarded just like any other employee who improves things. If you want to improve things by doing things on your own, you will own the fruits of your labor. If you need additional employees to improve things, then you will probably have to share with them.

How is owning the fruits of your labour different from capitalism again? Something about how other people's labour is priced?

> How is owning the fruits of your labour different from capitalism again?

Capitalists do not get money because of their labour. They get money because they own capital. An heir who inherits a large company can continue to receive his share of profits and dividends simply by being the "owner", even if he passes on the administrative work to others. If he has not worked, but consumes, he enjoys the fruits of the labor of others. The capitalist concentration of wealth in the hands of a few means that these few enjoy a quantity of fruits of labor that a person could never generate even if they worked for more than 100 years. So, obviously, capitalism has nothing to do with giving each person the fruits of their labor.

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