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How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

cambridge.org

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Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#491
post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MSNBC = reliable Mother Jones = reliable Fox News = unreliable

I'm not familiar with MSNBC and have never even heard of Mother Jones, but surely it's not controversial that Fox News is unreliable? They're an absolute punch line everywhere outside the US.

The point is that all 3 of those are more tabloid than serious journalistic outlets.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#493

One thing (perhaps the thing) that makes Wikipedia great is that it doesn't seek the truth. Instead, it seeks verifiability. This means that editors don't have to be experts to write articles, which is the main reason the site is useful at all. The truth can be very elusive. So it makes sense to move that burden to the sources.

I'd expand that: Wikipedia's greatness is due to its policies and guidelines in general. It is not surprising that they were drafted by a second-time encyclopedist and PhD in epistemology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Sanger

The next best thought out knowledge-based site is StackExchange.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was an interesting hypothesis for why I see women actively avoid the sort of debate spaces online that I seek out. They are all absolutely dominated by men and it doesn't matter what part of the political spectrum the particular echo chamber embodies, this happens in both leftist and right-wing spaces. Is it sexist to say that women seek out conflict less than men? Mens' brains are literally doused in a…

[flagged]

Is it true, or false, to observe one gender seeking out more or less conflict than the other?

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#495

One thing (perhaps the thing) that makes Wikipedia great is that it doesn't seek the truth. Instead, it seeks verifiability. This means that editors don't have to be experts to write articles, which is the main reason the site is useful at all. The truth can be very elusive. So it makes sense to move that burden to the sources.

So when the sources contain inaccurate information then Wikipedia does so as well. I don't see how that is a good thing people view Wikipedia as the online version of the Encyclopedia Britannica which was curated by experts. Wikipedia should strive for the truth since finding truthful and factual information is becoming increasingly more difficult online.

Wikipedia seeks reliable sources. If you dispute a source, take it up in the article's talk page.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that while believing in unfalsifiable beliefs or refusing to falsify them is certainly anyone's prerogative, I have to ask, why would anyone want to do that?

You're cracking me up. I should stop responding, but I can't help but wonder if you'll respond with this same sort of thing even if I say random stuff. I think pumpkin ravioli is overrated. What do you say to that?

Sounds like a personal opinion! I believe that you think that :D

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#497
post #4

I seem to remember a talk I heard a very long time ago, maybe by Joel Splosky? He was saying that he'd observed the "population change" effect in USENET; where argumentative jerks tended to stay and helpful people tended to be driven away; and in his mind the "reply in-line" mechanic specifically contributed to this. So the first-order goal he had when he built Stack Overflow was to build a system with mechanics whic…

This is a great point: reducing friction is a design choice, and you have to do it in a way to leads to the greater good.

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> especially women (I suspect). Not to be a woke feminist culture warrior on main but, that seems misogynistic.

Argumentative women, especially in the '90s, tend(ed) to be called bitches. That obviously changes behavior. Beyond that, much of the progress we've made in education equality is recognizing that boys and girls are, on average, different, and accounting for that. Be it nature or nurture - it doesn't matter at that point - you need to be inclusive regardless of the source of a difference or else you're failing half the population.

Everyone is, of course, an individual, and their preferences and behaviors can vary wildly outside of "norms".

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#499
post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with MSNBC and have never even heard of Mother Jones, but surely it's not controversial that Fox News is unreliable? They're an absolute punch line everywhere outside the US.

I'm guessing you must not be from the US, as MSNBC/Fox News both are on TV at all times in various public and private spaces. It depends on the content of course (political), but MSNBC is a left leaning version of Fox News - they are the same, just on the opposite sides of the spectrum. The fact that Wikipedia doesn't rank MSNBC the same as Fox News sends up some flags for me, but I could really care less at this poi…

Fox News goes well beyond having a lean, so far that they find themselves in legal hot water. And that's only when the pontificating on nonsense is so egregious that it's legally actionable...

Re: How Wikipedia became the last good place on the internet

#500
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the heck are you even talking about? I'm not running experiments, I'm trying to have a conversation. Do you or do you not believe the fediverse is ideologically homogeneous? I see people here arguing that it is, but that it is justifiably so. I don't see anyone clearly claiming it's not, but someone might. I think it is homogeneous for the very reasons you gave (i.e. people are not obliged to propagate speech th…

The fediverse is not ideologically or politically homogenous, there exist right-wing and apolitical instances, there exist instances targeted at exclusive and obscure subgroups, etc. If you never bother to look beyond the most popular instances, you obviously won't see many unpopular views.

I think there's a terminology issue here. If the left and the right servers are never federated, then the experience will be homogeneous even if the fediverse is itself not. In other words, I probably shouldn't not have used the term homogeneous and stuck with "echo chamber". I was trying to avoid that term because of its pejorative connotations. It seems to me there is value in being exposed to what people you disagree with are saying, and there's value in not having all the drama that entails, which tends dominate all discourse. The fediverse by and large has chosen the later, no?
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