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Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

home-assistant.io

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Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#581

Post by unlucio »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #234

Partially responsible for this. (Sold Lockitron to Chamberlain in 2017 which became the basis for Amazon Key integrations.) Contrary to the popular sentiment in a lot of the comments here, there’s not much value in the analytics. As we all painfully found out in the 2010’s, there are only two viable recurring revenue streams in the IoT space - charging for video storage and charging for commercial access. Chamberlain…

So the "excuse" for this is: we couldn't get filthy rich by monetising our customers, so this is the only option? Seriously?

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#582

Post by InsomniacL »

tzs wrote: post #185
lvh wrote: post #15

Based on my local big box store and garage installer availability, Chamberlain has a de facto monopoly. They also pulled the rug out from under customers: that behavior had been in Home Assistant since 2017, and it's their own recent changes that caused the alleged "DDoS". They say it's to promote official products, but the company previously had a local hub that didn't require their cloud service and discontinued it…

> It's unclear if the CTO just doesn't understand that "DDoS" generally implies malice, or if they're intentionally using that language to blame users for using their product. I've definitely seen "DDoS" used when there was no malice, such as when a developer accidentally releases a client that generates way more traffic than it was supposed to. Probably because we don't seem to have a good term for "event that at th…

> I've definitely seen "DDoS" used when there was no malice, such as when a developer accidentally releases a client that generates way more traffic than it was supposed to. Probably because we don't seem to have a good term for "event that at the server looks exactly like a malicious DDoS attack but was actually due to a mistake or to the server becoming unexpectedly popular" :-).

This is a problem with the service, not with the developer.

If the service (doesn't want) / (can't handle) something, then it should rate limit it's response.

If the service can't handle "0.2%" of it's clients making a 'not unreasonable' amount of requests, how will the service hold up against a hostile actor who aims to DDOS their service.

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#583

Post by ronnier »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #234

Partially responsible for this. (Sold Lockitron to Chamberlain in 2017 which became the basis for Amazon Key integrations.) Contrary to the popular sentiment in a lot of the comments here, there’s not much value in the analytics. As we all painfully found out in the 2010’s, there are only two viable recurring revenue streams in the IoT space - charging for video storage and charging for commercial access. Chamberlain…

Tesla doesn’t need a key, you just use your phone. If you do want one, they are $35 for two cards.

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#584

Post by citizenkeen »

gorgoiler wrote: post #556
scrps wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon expects me to weaken my physical security posture to help them defend against an activity I don't engage in and is in no way my responsibility? AND Chamberlain expects me to weaken my digital security posture so they can run some opaque crap on my network¹ that I have very little observability into and even less control over so they can make money? Money is one hell of a drug because they are high. How about a…

Are you upset with Amazon for hypothetically refusing to deliver to your home unless you give them a virtual key fob to your garage? Let’s just take a step back here and recognise that we’re asking online retailers to leave our deliveries outside our homes, with direct access to members of the public, but we’re also asking for them to assume responsibility if the packages are stolen. Morally, in isolation, it’s not a…

I would happily check a box that says "deliver to human being, if none home try again tomorrow".

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#585

Post by dpkirchner »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #567
TheCapeGreek wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd that the standard policy is to leave packages unattended in any form in the first place . This is another one of those things that is not standard globally. E.g for us in South Africa, this would be unthinkable, regardless of how much time it saves the delivery company. The only time a parcel is left at the door is when it's UberEats. Otherwise delivery is rescheduled if we don't physically collect parc…

Here in France that would be unthinkable, too. But the US still seems to have some remnants of a high trust society, which has been only a temporary thing in many places, if at all. Not having such a society adds frictions in all kind of interactions. In the end, that means cost. I can understand why people and company try to shift that cost when it comes up in areas where it wasn't present beforehand.

In the US if a package is not left at the door you either have to wait an unknowable amount of time for another attempt, or you'd have to go to a facility to pick it up.

It's difficult to figure out exactly where the facilities are and you're not guaranteed the package won't still be on the original truck or on a new one. The facilities may only be open during the day, while you're at work.

Additionally, it's common that no delivery attempt is made at all -- the delivery driver will walk up to the door with a "we missed you we'll try again someday" slip already filled out and won't even knock.

The main reason we are cool with deliveries being left on the porch isn't that we trust our neighbors, it's that the alternative is so much worse.

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#586

Post by DeepSeaTortoise »

bravura wrote: post #580
brabel wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Sweden, you can agree to let the delivery company just leave the package by the front door, but it's only common for low value things. Most things are delivered to your nearest post office counter (usually in your closest supermarket) and recently, to a locked postbox nearby which you unlock online with their app.

Here in Berlin Germany, packages are given to whichever neighbor in your apartment building happens to reply to the buzzer fastest, typically the ground floor ones. (Elevators are also uncommon.) I'm friends with all my neighbors but I find this practice completely bizarre.

Here in Buxtehofen, Bavaria, packages are left dangling from trees with a sign saying "I've hung up your rolex, so it wont be dragged of by boars while you're on vacation".

And when you're back from hiking the Alps your neighbor will have build a shed around it to protect it from the rain and moved in 10 of his pigs to keep it warm.

Unless of course your delivery guy tied your package to a special tree called Maibaum by mistake. Then you'll find a sign telling you that it has been redirected to one of the 5 villages called Kirchberg in your area.

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#587

Post by dpkirchner »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #515
derefr wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about the commercial parcel lockers — the ones that fit a whole neighbourhood's deliveries, that are therefore essentially big sturdy metal storage racks underneath — too big and heavy to just pick up and walk away with. Every country has these to some degree; I imagine they're most popular in places that 1. have colder climates, but 2. where people don't tend to drive (like Poland?) The US has some ,…

Fair enough. I got confused because you mentioned Amazon Lockers, which to my understanding, are the proper brand name of the kind of parcel lockers I mentioned, as deployed by Amazon. I agree that per-household lockers are... tricky at best. But then, if we're talking homes, and thus presumably lawns in front of them, I wonder what are the difficulties of selling a multi-slot locker that would be bolted down to the…

I'm in the US. Our neighborhood has a multi-slot locker like you describe. It has a small box per house and two larger boxes. The whole thing gets broken in to every couple years, after which the post office will not deliver anything until they fix it weeks later (and they're the only ones allowed to try).

When this happens you have to go to a post office to get your mail.

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#588

Post by WirelessGigabit »

bravura wrote: post #580
brabel wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Sweden, you can agree to let the delivery company just leave the package by the front door, but it's only common for low value things. Most things are delivered to your nearest post office counter (usually in your closest supermarket) and recently, to a locked postbox nearby which you unlock online with their app.

Here in Berlin Germany, packages are given to whichever neighbor in your apartment building happens to reply to the buzzer fastest, typically the ground floor ones. (Elevators are also uncommon.) I'm friends with all my neighbors but I find this practice completely bizarre.

In Belgium the mail carrier is supposed to ring your doorbell and wait x time for you to open it and deliver the package to you.

But instead they just put a piece of paper in your mailbox that says 'you weren't home, we'll come back tomorrow'. Next day same thing. Only then can you go and pick it up at the post office.

Oh and there are many stories of people seeing the mail carrier defaulting to the piece of paper and not even knocking because of time pressure.

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#589

Post by bitwize »

DeepSeaTortoise wrote: post #586
bravura wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Berlin Germany, packages are given to whichever neighbor in your apartment building happens to reply to the buzzer fastest, typically the ground floor ones. (Elevators are also uncommon.) I'm friends with all my neighbors but I find this practice completely bizarre.

Here in Buxtehofen, Bavaria, packages are left dangling from trees with a sign saying "I've hung up your rolex, so it wont be dragged of by boars while you're on vacation". And when you're back from hiking the Alps your neighbor will have build a shed around it to protect it from the rain and moved in 10 of his pigs to keep it warm. Unless of course your delivery guy tied your package to a special tree called Maibaum…

This is the best hackernews satire since n-gate stopped updating.

Re: Home Assistant blocked from integrating with Garage Door opener API

#590

Post by ElevenLathe »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #515
derefr wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about the commercial parcel lockers — the ones that fit a whole neighbourhood's deliveries, that are therefore essentially big sturdy metal storage racks underneath — too big and heavy to just pick up and walk away with. Every country has these to some degree; I imagine they're most popular in places that 1. have colder climates, but 2. where people don't tend to drive (like Poland?) The US has some ,…

Fair enough. I got confused because you mentioned Amazon Lockers, which to my understanding, are the proper brand name of the kind of parcel lockers I mentioned, as deployed by Amazon. I agree that per-household lockers are... tricky at best. But then, if we're talking homes, and thus presumably lawns in front of them, I wonder what are the difficulties of selling a multi-slot locker that would be bolted down to the…

As others have pointed out in this thread, the "porch pirate" problem is just kind of not a problem for most people/places. I've never heard of anyone I know having a package stolen off their porch. This is even living in relatively high-density (for the US) apartment complexes. Leaving stuff on the porch is basically good enough, so nobody is in a hurry to "fix" anything about it, except maybe Amazon themselves because even something that happens 0.1% of the time is a big enough problem when you operate at their scale.

I suspect that some of the the same reasons that lockers aren't economically feasible in most of the US is the same reason that the theft isn't a problem: low density. If you're a porch pirate, you need to expect that the value of your stolen goods covers at least your gas and time driving around stealing stuff, plus some risk premium for doing the crime. If the average value of a package is below this amount, the crime doesn't pay. There will still be instances where people haven't done this math, or crimes of opportunity, or just dense stretches where it does make sense depending on the price of gas, but it isn't a nationwide problem.

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