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After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

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Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#171
I have written about this before, particularly as it pertains to Vizio.

My conclusion is simple: Government intervention is now required.

I hate to take that path. I just don't see anything at all limiting what TV manufacturers are doing. They are completely out of control.

The way I put it is that you buy a TV and they deliver a data-gathering, privacy-abusing digital advertising device into your family room, bedroom, etc.

The level of surveillance and abuse on consumers is truly unbelievable. And nobody is even talking about putting a stop to it. HN often focuses on solutions to such problems that only techies would generally be able to or consider implementing. The vast majority of consumers are unsuspecting victims. They don't really understand that the home page is a bunch cost-per-click ads and that every single action they take is being logged and sold. Most people just don't know.

And this is why legislation is required, not a techie solution or work-around. This needs to stop.

So...I did something about it. I wrote to my congressional representative, explaining the problem and asking for action. The response, a few weeks later, was a form letter thanking me for contacting the office. So much for taxation with representation.

Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#172
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a setting to choose what the home button does. My Home Screen looks just like a grid of icons. No ads or anything. The Apple TV app is not the same as the Home Screen.

No, the home screen displays ads in the hero unit for the currently selected app. By default the first app on the home screen is an Apple one, so going to the home screen displays ads on the home screen from the selected Apple app. You can change the apps in the first row to prevent this, but by default the behavior is the same: home screen ads.

Those “ads” are provided by the app. Hulu showed me Hulu stuff, HBO shows HBO, etc. just like when you open that app.

I think there may be an option to turn that off too, I don’t remember.

Honestly I’m never on that screen for more than a few seconds. I don’t find that problematic at all.

Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> same old story from Apple: expensive but it consistently just works. Not to mention at least you know where they're hitting you - up front, on the hardware. It's like the people that complain about a Macbook being 20% more (or whatever), buying a PC-something, and then coming back complaining that Windows is loaded with ads or Linux has all kinds of issues on it. I'm with you - I went from being a die-hard Linux de…

Macbook costs like 3x compared to competitors. For example, Apple M1 8 Core score on cpubenchmark is about 14000. If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux. The only good thing in Macbook is display, which covers more than 100% of sRGB color space and has giantic resolution. I wish it could be bought separately and installed into a normal laptop.

> If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux.

And their battery lasts almost two hours.

Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#174

The trick is to never give your TV access to the internet and to pair it with an Apple TV. If you buy a TV and it won't even boot or work without an internet connection - return it and get a different one.

I've had a TCL Roku TV since 2018 and it was always sluggish using the apps through its default interface. I got an AppleTV last year and the ease of use & lack of input lag or advertisements was a breath of fresh air.

Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite parts of AppleTV is that it has those beautiful screensavers.

I would pay for more aerials. I don’t understand why they are limited to so few, and if I could eliminate N.Y.C./London/Hong Kong/SF/other major cities, and get some lesser seen areas, that would be awesome.

They add a few every big release. I agree I’d love more.

Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> same old story from Apple: expensive but it consistently just works. Not to mention at least you know where they're hitting you - up front, on the hardware. It's like the people that complain about a Macbook being 20% more (or whatever), buying a PC-something, and then coming back complaining that Windows is loaded with ads or Linux has all kinds of issues on it. I'm with you - I went from being a die-hard Linux de…

Macbook costs like 3x compared to competitors. For example, Apple M1 8 Core score on cpubenchmark is about 14000. If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux. The only good thing in Macbook is display, which covers more than 100% of sRGB color space and has giantic resolution. I wish it could be bought separately and installed into a normal laptop.

Artificial benchmarks are interesting but as another personal anecdote, I bought a maxed-out Framework for over $3000 a couple of years ago when I was still Linux desktop oriented. Way more RAM, storage, faster on benchmarks than anything Apple at the time.

It was the worst machine I've ever had. One day after doing yet another plug-unplug-reboot-wtf dance to get a display to work (that just worked the day before) I threw my hands up, went to Best Buy and bought some random basic Macbook Pro for $1200 (lower specs, of course). I don't know what the specs or benchmarks look like, I don't care. I just need a tool to do my work.

What I do know is that it runs for at least weeks at a time, does absolutely everything I need it to do, and I never feel like I'm waiting for it. Plug/unplug displays, thunderbolt docks, open/close the lid, don't charge it for days at time. Just runs along - cool and silent. I open it, get my work done, close it. Day after day.

I absolutely guarantee that even if this Macbook was $6000 I'm way ahead in terms of productivity not to mention stress and frustration - which I value very, very highly.

It's been "Ohhh, this is NICE" experiences like this that have chipped away at my previous thinking and pulled me further and further towards Apple. Still not perfect (of course) but the time I spend fixing my tools vs being productive isn't even close.

I'm probably just getting old and cranky but I have very little patience for BS at this point in my life. When I was 13 figuring out why RedHat 5.2 didn't boot on my AMD K6 was fun. It's not fun anymore.

Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#177
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the mistake of assuming the ad is for the best offer you'd be interested in instead of the one that makes the most money from you (i.e. the worst one for you). The expected utility to you is negative.

You're missing an important nuance. The best advertisement is for a product that, in expectation , makes the most money from me. My relative interest is still important, and you can't just jump from the fact that somebody is making money to the unfounded claim that the "expected utility is negative." When I buy an item I'm making a decision that the marginal value of that item to me is worth more than the marginal co…

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Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet. You don't see ads, yet. But, what you are doing, is selling your viewing history to marketers, albeit indirectly. For that $20 box, you are giving away everything you watch, when you watch, and very likely anything that goes through that box. That said, you might be 100% ok w/that for the price and that's ok. But, you should go in eyes open about what these lower-cost pieces of hardware are doing to 'permit' you…

I wouldn't say I'm 100% OK with it, more just accepted it. I don't think there's any real way around it with a streaming lifestyle. The streaming device wants data, the services want data. Even my TV I believe asked if it can view what's on the screen. Even if I had a dumb TV, and a secure trustworthy streaming box, the services themselves(Netflix et al) are collecting the same data, no?

>Even if I had a dumb TV, and a secure trustworthy streaming box, the services themselves(Netflix et al) are collecting the same data, no?

Collecting, yes, but not selling. ONN explicitly says they do so in their privacy policy.

https://onntvsupport.com/privacy-policy

>We may disclose “blinded” aggregated data and user statistics to prospective partners and other third parties. Blinded data is data that does not identify an individual person.

Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#179

Honestly, that's what you get for not buying a cheap pc that can be hooked to any screen. It's easier, cheaper, and you don't have to deal with "apps". I am continuously amazed HTPCs are losing ground to commercial setups that are objectively worse by any conceivable metric. No, dealing with "apps" is not simpler.

I've looked into those when I was setting up my living room and, while PCs have their strengths, they lack things like CEC support, proper support for a remote (which you can work around by using Kodi), apps like Netflix are hardly supported and getting them to stream 4K, HDR or even just to use Dolby is an exercise in futility. Not to mention that those setups tend to be pretty unstable.

A technical user can definitely patch something together, but it will be a far less stable or streamlined experience and if you try to have your TV used by your non-technical family, good luck.

Re: After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads

#180

Are there any Smart TVs that aren't stuffed with ads? Apple TV might be the least bad, but it still allows apps to display recommended nonsense on the home screen when they are highlighted.

only for home row apps. tbh you’re being a lil over dramatic they aren’t ads they are showing a subset of available content. being able to swipe over the Netflix app and get a clean grid of the current top content on Netflix without opening it is a great feature.

I will also add that in my experience it is typically recommending shows you are in progress with, or next in a queue, or on some list you have curated before recommending anything else. So quite handy at times.
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