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Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

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Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#101

Post by pixl97 »

rowyourboat wrote: post #80
ehaliewicz2 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be a little too far, but I sometimes say to my friends that a minor crash should actually be part of driver training. Modern cars feel extremely safe, and nearly drive themselves, so many people do not take driving as seriously as they should, and not as seriously as they do after they have their first collision. Perhaps being required to actually use 100% braking power to pass is enough :) In this respect…

> because motorcycles require a higher-level of attention and are significantly more dangerous to operate than a car. For the driver. Cars are more dangerous than motorcycles for everybody but the people inside/on it, which means that swerving and braking exercises are actually much more necessary for car drivers than for motorcycle riders

Weight is the winner at equal velocity.

This said, I prefer my mode of transportation to have a hard crunchy outside to protect my soft gooey insides.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#102

Post by serf »

j-a-a-p wrote: post #4

I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available. The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back c…

>In this line of thought, it can be life saving to be overweight. I was about 120 kg back then and therefor had quite strong legs.

people that lack the ability to lock the wheels on their vehicle on-demand shouldn't be driving it without aids.

it's exclusionary, but even as a paralyzed person who is mandated to use hand controls for throttle and brake it was expected of me to demonstrate that I could leverage enough force on the brake pedal to initiate lock-up in a timely manner -- and modern cars with power-assist brakes should have little problem doing so.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#103

Post by pixl97 »

JohnFen wrote: post #83
aidenn0 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An added bonus is that most of time the impatient drivers will just go around me and I don't need to worry too much about tailgaters. I so wish this were more true; I've been tailgated for 10s of miles in the right lane on a freeway with light traffic that was never fewer than 3 lanes for the entirety of that distance.

When I've encountered this, I've just taken my foot off the accelerator and let the car gradually lose speed. Eventually, the person behind loses patience and passes me angrily.

Yep, it's always better to put the car behind you in a non-accelerating frame before they slowing down is required.

Honestly I would love for tailgating to have automated enforcement with each ticket doubling in fines. In a few weeks we'd weed most of the bad drivers off the road, and at least in my imagined scenario road safety would increase dramatically.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#104

Post by LAC-Tech »

aidenn0 wrote: post #72
david_acm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this precise reason I like to drive with tons of buffer to the car ahead. Given the fact that I am usually in a sports car, I know I can brake much faster than most people around me. Should I need to come to a complete stop, I can control the braking distance to make sure the cars behind me are not only aware that I'm coming to a full stop, which gives them the time/distance they need to brake, but it also gives…

> An added bonus is that most of time the impatient drivers will just go around me and I don't need to worry too much about tailgaters. I so wish this were more true; I've been tailgated for 10s of miles in the right lane on a freeway with light traffic that was never fewer than 3 lanes for the entirety of that distance.

Wind your window down, stick your hand out, and gesture for them to pass.

It works most times I've tried it.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#105

Post by LAC-Tech »

ehaliewicz2 wrote: post #52
rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

This might be a little too far, but I sometimes say to my friends that a minor crash should actually be part of driver training. Modern cars feel extremely safe, and nearly drive themselves, so many people do not take driving as seriously as they should, and not as seriously as they do after they have their first collision. Perhaps being required to actually use 100% braking power to pass is enough :) In this respect…

In this respect, motorcycle training courses are MUCH better, and have numerous braking and swerving drills, but they have to be, because motorcycles require a higher-level of attention and are significantly more dangerous to operate than a car.

Then why does almost every motorcyclist I see ride dangerously? They all follow too close. Many will spill over into the oncoming traffic lane to overtake something in their own lane, just expecting you to move to the shoulder so they can go the wrong way in your lane.

Later I see them stopped for fuel or food and it's all grey haired dudes.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#106

Post by RandallBrown »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #81
rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

What's interesting to me is that in emergencies, apparently many people don't brake hard enough. So now they've created brake-assist options that try to determine when such a case is occurring, and slam on the brakes as hard as the car is able. As incredulous as that sounds, it's apparently improved overall safety. From what I've read the tech has been around since the 90's but has become much more standard.

I've never been in a situation where I didn't brake hard enough, but I'm a little surprised that's possible.

I figured the amount of pressure required to lock the wheels was fairly minimal.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#107

Post by c22 »

latchkey wrote: post #69
rented_mule wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shortly after buying a car, I always go a large, empty parking lot late and night, get up to about 30 mph and stop as hard as I can. I want to understand what it feels like before I get into a panic situation. I only buy a car every 10 years on average, so it's interesting to see the progress in braking. My current car (a 2014 model) stopped so quickly and so violently that it frightened me. Everything not tied down…

What are you planning on getting next year?

GP didn't say they buy a new car every 10 years.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#108

Post by mrnaught »

Sometime back watched a video explaining how Fernando Alonso's breaking style is similar to ABS, but with him modulating the brake force he was able to outbrake others and gain time lap over lap.

Got curious, tried at low speeds & surprised how much the brake force modulation reduces the stoping distance. It has become a habit now and when the speed drops like maybe to 40mph or less instinctively modulate the braking.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#109

Post by mschulkind »

tass wrote: post #60
dsego wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh sorry, this was my experience in 20-30 year old cars, they push back, so you need a firm hold on the brake.

No don't be sorry, I'm mainly curious if they still had the same feeling. I don't know the last time I had to brake hard enough to need ABS in the car, if they still had that feeling, or even if my car has brake-by-wire.

I don't think brake by wire is legal in the US. Don't know about other places.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#110

Post by Aqua_Geek »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #81
rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

What's interesting to me is that in emergencies, apparently many people don't brake hard enough. So now they've created brake-assist options that try to determine when such a case is occurring, and slam on the brakes as hard as the car is able. As incredulous as that sounds, it's apparently improved overall safety. From what I've read the tech has been around since the 90's but has become much more standard.

> What's interesting to me is that in emergencies, apparently many people don't brake hard enough.

I did the Mini Stunt Driving Course the other week in Palm Springs. One of the first things they cover is emergency braking. Even in that situation — not an emergency; the whole point is to stop the car as fast as possible — I had trouble overcoming the urge to NOT brake as hard as I could. It took a few runs for me to get myself to stand on the brakes properly.

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