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Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

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Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#301

Post by kristopolous »

kodapoda wrote: post #300
projectazorian wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if Berghain is still a community venue, as opposed to a bunch of ur-capitalist hustlers selling the idea of community to lost and naive souls. Community and scale do not mix. If the founders truly cared about community they would have wound the place up in about 2010 and done something new. But once people experience a bit of success greed inevitably takes over…

I see your point, but a community venue and constantly wounding up and starting anew also don't mix. It's an unfortunate outcome of the scale and the system we live in. If Berghain was a XII century monastery in an inaccessible place it could have maintained a community venue for centuries. A large club in the techno capital of the world has to resort to a different approach if it wants to maintain at least some leve…

But it excludes arbitrary people from the community for arbitrary and superficial reasons.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#302

Post by twixfel »

vinckr wrote: post #268
twixfel wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German "underground" scene is just completely backwards and childish. They're so forward thinking and advanced that they've wrapped right around having experienced some sort of integer overflow and started caring deeply about how other people (strangers) dress all over again. Like being back at school. The "scene" is a joke.

No one in the scene cares deeply how you dress, where did you get that from? I would advise to spend less time on social media and experience the real world before you comment on it.

It's unique to the German scene and I live in Berlin, I understand the scene thank you. Germany is unique in how predisposed with the superficial its "alternative" scene is, without any doubt. Spend less time in Germany less time on social media and more time in other countries and you may begin to notice this. If all you know is Germany then a lot of very strange behaviour will be normal to you.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#303

Post by kodapoda »

kristopolous wrote: post #301
kodapoda wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, but a community venue and constantly wounding up and starting anew also don't mix. It's an unfortunate outcome of the scale and the system we live in. If Berghain was a XII century monastery in an inaccessible place it could have maintained a community venue for centuries. A large club in the techno capital of the world has to resort to a different approach if it wants to maintain at least some leve…

But it excludes arbitrary people from the community for arbitrary and superficial reasons. Why is this so hard to understand?

This is an exaggeration. All communities have something that make them a community, and not just an everchanging group of random people. Is being into techno a random or superficial reason for being a part of the techno community? Is looking and being friendly a superficial reason for being a part of an intentionally accepting community? This is the same argument people use in many other contexts where inclusion is conflated with having no rules and preferences. Should gay sex parties admit large groups of drunk aggressive lads just because gay parties are supposed to be inclusive? This approach ends up compromising the community itself, it really doesn't benefit the cause.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#304

Post by kodapoda »

kristopolous wrote: post #202
kodapoda wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am reminded that we are on a tech forum :) Do they need to capitalize, scale, open franchise clubs all over the world? Techno clubs are not about that at their best. Door policy is discrimination only in the sense that the very few people at the door have to make a swift judgment on whether your group will fit in. Can this be upsetting? Sure! > In Germany. Let me guess, they look at your ID to check your name and n…

Kitkatklub dress code is wacky. They're insanely serious about it but it's easy to conform to. It's a costume party. As to the other point, you can separate the process to avoid the kind of blanket discrimination I think we can all agree is unethical. I bet they don't make the slightest effort. It's probably one guy that checks your ID and says yes/no and one guy that takes money. It could be 3 instead of 2 to avoid,…

You could approach visiting Berghain the same way you do with KitKatClub. I don't recommend it, but you could. Treat it as a costume party - match the expectations, dress up appropriately, come with a friendly group.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#305

Post by dartharva »

bowsamic wrote: post #258
dartharva wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you say...

So are you going to go all the way with your reasoning and claim that there has never been an actual social problem ever?

No, I am claiming that no matter what the kids do, it will always be "wrong" for you, just because they are kids and you are not.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#306

Post by Blahah »

worklaptopacct wrote: post #274
Blahah wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's genuinely nothing to do with why the Berlin clubs with strict entry policies are great. The experience inside doesn't feel exclusive, it's beautiful - people being free and really immersed in the music, supporting and taking care of one another, creating myriad moments of connection and joy, and a very much lower rate of people being obnoxious or in conflict than in a regular club. It's totally unlike being in…

That's 100% the thing. KitKat for example has recently been taking hits to its reputation because there have been instances of groping in there and they've been ignored by the club stuff. Now that they let Till Lindemann in a few weeks ago even though there have been active accusations of sexual harassment against him, they are completely done for with anyone who cares. In contrast, places like Berghain are blind to…

Been away from Berlin for 7 months or so and I'm really saddened and surprised to hear that about KitKat. It's a complex line to navigate in there always but that's part of the beauty of it - I've had plenty of uncomfortable or challenging experiences in there but always felt fundamentally safe, and know many of my friends, especially women, find it a safe (but sometimes challenging) space. It really does depend on the whole culture participating in holding the line, and it sounds like it's faltering recently.

My experience of KitKat is that unwanted attention of any kind (which depending on the night might not be super rare) is quickly shut down by the people in the immediate area before the staff even get close, and then the staff respond very quickly to it, especially if someone who is a regular calls attention.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#307

Post by pdntspa »

ChuffedToBits wrote: post #266
55555 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are clubs that forbid alcohol? That’s wild.

Clubs don't forbid alcohol. That was misleading hyperbole. Being visibly drunk at the door might reduce chances to get in, but clubs make a lot of money with drinks and the majority of people will buy drinks, even in clubs where illicit drugs are consumed.

Yeah, there are, or at least were, a few.

The thing about Berlin clubs is they care very strongly about the vibe and being cool, and/or protecting those deep in psychedlics or other stuff. Aggressive, drunk assholes ruin that so they are verboten in some spots. The bars are all happily stocked with non-alcoholic selections. It's not America where you need to make money at all costs fuck the consequences.

Note that these are the same places that will reputedly dump you out the back door if you overdo it or OD, take from that what you will.

Also, I think you underestimate just how much the party scene loves Club Mate over there. That is what we drank instead. It pairs really nicely with molly!

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#308

Post by pdntspa »

worklaptopacct wrote: post #271
pdntspa wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most likely reason is that you give off tourist vibes. My Berliner friend told me as such when I came to visit, we hit up some thrift shops so I could get some local threads and 'blend in' In fact, when I got in one club a very cute german girl tried to talk to me on the dancefloor. But I didn't speak any German and she got angry, shouting "aaauuggh!! tourists!!!" Also, for the clubs that forbid alcohol (hard dru…

The only difference with today would be that not speaking German no longer means that you are visiting. Boroughs such as Friedrichshain or Neukölln are full of expats, including young Americans who did not yet realize that they don't live in America anymore. Many people do indeed come for a few years to party their 20s away and move on with their lives into a different place, so they have no incentive in learning the…

Funny, for me it was like 30 euros at a thrift store and we were golden. I walked out with some really dope army-green tight Levi's, I still have those and I wish they still fit.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#309

Post by wkat4242 »

Blahah wrote: post #306
worklaptopacct wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 100% the thing. KitKat for example has recently been taking hits to its reputation because there have been instances of groping in there and they've been ignored by the club stuff. Now that they let Till Lindemann in a few weeks ago even though there have been active accusations of sexual harassment against him, they are completely done for with anyone who cares. In contrast, places like Berghain are blind to…

Been away from Berlin for 7 months or so and I'm really saddened and surprised to hear that about KitKat. It's a complex line to navigate in there always but that's part of the beauty of it - I've had plenty of uncomfortable or challenging experiences in there but always felt fundamentally safe, and know many of my friends, especially women, find it a safe (but sometimes challenging) space. It really does depend on t…

I've only heard great things about KitKat even from people who live in Berlin. It's a bit of a Mekka according to the people in the scene here.

The scene is prone to issues and what we do in my town is not allowing new people unless they have a fet account and/or accompanied by a regular. There's also a blacklist of known offenders. Not sure if that's the case over there.

I really hope I can visit it one day but I'm really afraid of travelling all the way there and being refused..

Ps regarding Lindemann I'm not a big fan of cancelling people before the facts come out. I absolutely abhor abuse but I'm also very much in favour of innocent until proven guilty.

It wouldn't really be a risk of him misbehaving because there's so many eyes on him. But I know it's a tough line to draw. Glad I'm not a club manager.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#310

Post by wkat4242 »

kapep wrote: post #114
Ralfp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing with sticker is that usually you go to the toilet and walls are covered in those stickers people removed from their devices as soon as they got away from the bouncers.

The point is that the sticker would have to be taken off deliberately. If you are caught taking a photo, you can't claim you just forgot about the rules. You broke the rules on purpose and depending on the club they either get very angry with you or kick you out without warning. The stickers you see on the walls could have accumulated over month. The system usually works fine and you rarely see anyone taking photos.…

Also I often ask for extra stickers to put on my bag and such. Never a problem.
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