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Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

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Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#191

Post by ahartmetz »

kodapoda wrote: post #152
shiroiuma wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This might be true for very few very selective clubs like Berghain, certainly not true for all Berlin clubs. Perhaps, but it seems that those "selective" clubs have given a bad reputation to all clubs.

Berlin clubs are a scene, it's highly recommended to do prep work before going out. Personally, I would love for these clubs to be more accessible, but understand that Berghain has a very specific reputation that it works hard to maintain. It's an exclusive techno club considered by many to be the best in the world.

> It's an exclusive techno club considered by many to be the best in the world.

Being exclusive is really against the ethos of techno in Berlin. The "exclusivity" at the door is usually about achieving a fun mix of people and keeping out the ones who cannot behave.

As an occasional clubber in Berlin, these "best" things are ridiculous. The "best" kebab place with the long queue is nothing special at all, and Berghain is, apart from the building and the (mostly gay) sex stuff (which don't do much for me) a club like many others. It's never been my favorite - the vibe can be surprisingly aggressive and the music is often not that good for my taste. I used to go there for specific acts or along with friends only. Haven't bothered for years now. Nowadays it's also become expensive, cashing in on its dubious status.

There is a thing that the "best" kebab place and the "best" club have in common: kebab places and clubs are both very good in Berlin, so if you go to the one that the tourist guide / TikTok recommended, you're probably going to have a good time - but maybe you don't know that there are many other just as good or better places.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#192

Post by kristopolous »

bookaway wrote: post #190
tern wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here just to share that I think "segregated" night clubs are essential for creating a publicly accessible and safe + positive vibe club experience. Your other options are (a) let anyone in and you get a**** and total dilution of cultural values (quick death of the institution) or (b) it's a private party and you're not invited. For accessible and good, you can stay on your toes and find new, smaller clubs and scenes…

> (a) let anyone in and you get a** and total dilution of cultural values (quick death of the institution) The counterargument to your point is somewhat self-evident: all the great nightclubs in Berlin that have way more relaxed entrances than Berghain that aren't filled with assholes and aren't completely diluted of cultural values. Often times it's the exclusivity that attracts the assholes who normally don't liste…

I'm not going to go that far. I'm sure there's decent people there.

I've got no interest in discriminating against the discriminators

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#193

Post by crucialfelix »

makeitshine wrote: post #24
RamblingCTO wrote: post #2

You also have tik tok ravers. A generation which built their own culture in isolation in the pandemic now flooding the dance floors not knowing anything about techno culture. For me it's a big part of not wanting to go anywhere anymore. Before, your outfit didn't matter, phones, photos and videos were discouraged. Nowadays these kids dress to impress and point there phones everywhere. They consume the techno culture…

For many older people it died in the 90s. When people stopped dancing and treated the DJ like it was a concert I felt it had changed into something else. I watch some of the old VHS I took and people are crowding the speakers and the floor is alive, while nowadays so much of what I see is people all facing a DJ lit up by a spotlight and just standing their bobbing their head.

Which is exactly the crap that Berghain is protecting itself from with it's strict door policy. The dancefloor is pure sound, the DJ is visible but not the center.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#194

Post by tern »

kristopolous wrote: post #178
tern wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here just to share that I think "segregated" night clubs are essential for creating a publicly accessible and safe + positive vibe club experience. Your other options are (a) let anyone in and you get a**** and total dilution of cultural values (quick death of the institution) or (b) it's a private party and you're not invited. For accessible and good, you can stay on your toes and find new, smaller clubs and scenes…

Counterpoint: Hacker News, CDMX EBM scene, goth scene, LA underground art scene, SF renegade rave scene, Latin bars, gay clubs like the EndUp, which have been open and welcoming since 1971, gay black scene, free software movement, gay Asian scene in any city, bear bars, salsa clubs, martial arts clubs, drag bars, anime scene, furry scene, hiking groups, Trekkies, adventurer clubs, punk scene, bicycle riders groups, a…

Ultimately, I agree, and have spent a lot more time in many of these scenes than at Berghain.

However, all of them are fairly self-selecting in different ways that I think are difficult or impossible to achieve in a long-running, ostensibly "for everyone" institution like a techno club.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#195

Post by danjac »

fab1an wrote: post #7
RamblingCTO wrote: post #2

You also have tik tok ravers. A generation which built their own culture in isolation in the pandemic now flooding the dance floors not knowing anything about techno culture. For me it's a big part of not wanting to go anywhere anymore. Before, your outfit didn't matter, phones, photos and videos were discouraged. Nowadays these kids dress to impress and point there phones everywhere. They consume the techno culture…

Phones and photography are banned in many Berlin clubs - they either lock your phone away at the entrance or put a sticker on the camera. That's why you barely see any footage from inside Berghain anywhere...

Would be great if they did this in gyms as well. Keep the influencer scum out so people can work out in peace.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#196

Post by kristopolous »

kodapoda wrote: post #188
kristopolous wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: Hacker News, CDMX EBM scene, goth scene, LA underground art scene, SF renegade rave scene, Latin bars, gay clubs like the EndUp, which have been open and welcoming since 1971, gay black scene, free software movement, gay Asian scene in any city, bear bars, salsa clubs, martial arts clubs, drag bars, anime scene, furry scene, hiking groups, Trekkies, adventurer clubs, punk scene, bicycle riders groups, a…

You can go out to hundreds of bars in Berlin without any door policy whatsoever. Legendary bars, cool bars, gay bars, etc. It's not like the whole of Berlin is segregated. But this approach just wouldn't benefit some popular dance clubs. Without a solid door policy clubs would be stuffed with people who come there for wrong reasons. To pick up girls, to get drunk, to visit an attraction for the sake of a visit (not b…

So your argument is that it's a popular tourist attraction so instead of capitalizing on it by say opening a second, moving to a bigger space, having more events, selling tickets in advance or charging higher prices they instead openly and famously discriminate based on physical appearance?

In Germany. Let me guess, they look at your ID to check your name and nationality first. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I bet I'm not.

Btw, KitKatClub doesn't do that and they're equally famous.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#197

Post by crucialfelix »

spacemadness wrote: post #63
gedy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berghain is a sex club though, no? It's not just a place to dance and drink. I'd never go there myself, but I kind of get the point of being selective.

Uh, no. The focus is the music and dancing. It’s as much a “sex club” as any other dance club. Source: I’ve been to Berghain.

Laboratory is definitely a sex club, but it has a separate entrance. Source: I've been there on NYE when they open the door between the two.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#198

Post by kodapoda »

ahartmetz wrote: post #191
kodapoda wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin clubs are a scene, it's highly recommended to do prep work before going out. Personally, I would love for these clubs to be more accessible, but understand that Berghain has a very specific reputation that it works hard to maintain. It's an exclusive techno club considered by many to be the best in the world.

> It's an exclusive techno club considered by many to be the best in the world. Being exclusive is really against the ethos of techno in Berlin. The "exclusivity" at the door is usually about achieving a fun mix of people and keeping out the ones who cannot behave. As an occasional clubber in Berlin, these "best" things are ridiculous. The "best" kebab place with the long queue is nothing special at all, and Berghain…

I don't mean "exclusive" as in a "VIP club" a-la some Miami venues. Exclusive meaning really hard to get into.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#199

Post by tern »

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #129
browningstreet wrote: post #14

I used to live part time in Berlin during the recent heyday of these clubs. The city was a bit more anarchic and chaotic. There was a lot of underground things happening. I was there recently and the city felt much more subdued. Things got cleaned up. Lots of new housing. A bit more gentrified and quiet. I’m guessing the crowds aged out.

This isn’t discussed enough. Williamsburg got lame because people stayed . The complaints are about transplants but it’s those that stay and age who change the vibe

Williamsburg is more than lame. It's surreal. Sit on Bedford and watch people for an hour sometime. Makes me feel like I'm in a simulation.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#200

Post by remotefonts »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #108
deng wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Berghain does it pretty well. Usually the bouncers walk the line and already tell people when they definitely will not get in. This avoids a lot of drama at the door, and people don't have to wait needlessly and can still comfortably go someplace else. Berghain is one of the most famous clubs in the world. It has and cultivates an underground image, which is why people want to go there in the first place. Y…

Pro tip: don’t wear tennis shoes.

Shoes? When I rave I dance barefoot, like it should be. Ofcourse, I wouldn't go to a rave between walls even if someone paid me to. Open air or bust
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