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Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

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Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#181

Post by Tommstein »

idra wrote: post #163
Tommstein wrote: post #82

A few years ago I spent a week in Berlin, intending to party after having heard its reputation. The clubs were a parade of "oh, you don't know who's DJing? Can't come in" and "you're wearing a scarf, can't come in" (it was December, so cold and presumably not peak partying season). At Berghain it was something like "sorry, private event." Fuck Berlin clubs, if they want to turn down customers trying to give them mone…

Incredibly thankful for Berlin bouncers for doing their job properly, and not letting people in who think that as long as they "give money" everything should spread open for them, and who don't even bother to know what the main theme and focus on the event (who's DJing). Exactly the kind of people I'd like to avoid when partying in a techno club.

Yes, my comment did not advocate for anyone to stop the clubs from their attempted suicide, in fact the opposite, it advocated for letting them succeed.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#182

Post by twixfel »

idra wrote: post #163
Tommstein wrote: post #82

A few years ago I spent a week in Berlin, intending to party after having heard its reputation. The clubs were a parade of "oh, you don't know who's DJing? Can't come in" and "you're wearing a scarf, can't come in" (it was December, so cold and presumably not peak partying season). At Berghain it was something like "sorry, private event." Fuck Berlin clubs, if they want to turn down customers trying to give them mone…

Incredibly thankful for Berlin bouncers for doing their job properly, and not letting people in who think that as long as they "give money" everything should spread open for them, and who don't even bother to know what the main theme and focus on the event (who's DJing). Exactly the kind of people I'd like to avoid when partying in a techno club.

Very difficult to imagine you would notice in the middle of a night club who around you does and doesn't know the lineup for the night. Amusing to think about, though.

Next time try to enjoy the music and don't worry so much about what other people around you are up to!

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#184

Post by kodapoda »

ungamedplayer wrote: post #173
kodapoda wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin clubs are a scene, it's highly recommended to do prep work before going out. Personally, I would love for these clubs to be more accessible, but understand that Berghain has a very specific reputation that it works hard to maintain. It's an exclusive techno club considered by many to be the best in the world.

Prep work.. like the years of study practice pays off . What kind of prep is required to go out to drink and fund someone else's business? I will never be going as I am too old and too busy for the "scene" so please explain it to me in laymen terminology.

You need to know how to look and set the right expectations if you want to experience the most highly regarded techno club in the world. If you show up there with a group of drunk mates wearing sweatshirts or office attire - don't expect to be admitted. It's not that hard really, exclusive places have special rules.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#185

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

ted_bunny wrote: post #113
FFP999 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to think of it, I've personally seen what SF looks like after the money goes away--and this time it seems to be going a lot faster and to a much bigger degree.

When are you referring to?

Presumably the Dot Com bust

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#186

Post by kodapoda »

Blahah wrote: post #167
explaininjs wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad to you perhaps, great for the people who take pride in being at "the most exclusive" places. Which is a not-insignificant amount of people.

That's genuinely nothing to do with why the Berlin clubs with strict entry policies are great. The experience inside doesn't feel exclusive, it's beautiful - people being free and really immersed in the music, supporting and taking care of one another, creating myriad moments of connection and joy, and a very much lower rate of people being obnoxious or in conflict than in a regular club. It's totally unlike being in…

Exactly, I feel like people who complain about this have never experienced anything close to what you describe. Strict door policy benefits the club goers. If you want to go pick up girls with some sweaty dudes looking for a fight - that's fine, there are many clubs like that in any European country, including Germany.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#187

Post by kabes »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #53
cedws wrote: post #43

I realise Berghain et al are trying to protect themselves from the riff raff, but enforcing a stupid "techno uniform" and turning away half their potential customers for arbitrary reasons probably doesn't help their business. I went to Berlin earlier this year and didn't even try to get into Berghain because I don't want to waste time queuing only to be turned away. In London we have some excellent clubs that don't c…

> I realise Berghain et al are trying to protect themselves from the riff raff, but enforcing a stupid "techno uniform" and turning away half their potential customers for arbitrary reasons probably doesn't help their business. Berghain is very elitist in this regard. There exist lots of other clubs in Berlin.

I've always heard this, but I got in first try and I was the least techno looking of the queue. And it was pretty crowded. In contrast to some other Berlin clubs that had an hours long line while having barely any people inside. Maybe I got lucky.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#188

Post by kodapoda »

kristopolous wrote: post #178
tern wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here just to share that I think "segregated" night clubs are essential for creating a publicly accessible and safe + positive vibe club experience. Your other options are (a) let anyone in and you get a**** and total dilution of cultural values (quick death of the institution) or (b) it's a private party and you're not invited. For accessible and good, you can stay on your toes and find new, smaller clubs and scenes…

Counterpoint: Hacker News, CDMX EBM scene, goth scene, LA underground art scene, SF renegade rave scene, Latin bars, gay clubs like the EndUp, which have been open and welcoming since 1971, gay black scene, free software movement, gay Asian scene in any city, bear bars, salsa clubs, martial arts clubs, drag bars, anime scene, furry scene, hiking groups, Trekkies, adventurer clubs, punk scene, bicycle riders groups, a…

You can go out to hundreds of bars in Berlin without any door policy whatsoever. Legendary bars, cool bars, gay bars, etc. It's not like the whole of Berlin is segregated.

But this approach just wouldn't benefit some popular dance clubs. Without a solid door policy clubs would be stuffed with people who come there for wrong reasons. To pick up girls, to get drunk, to visit an attraction for the sake of a visit (not because they enjoy techno music), to get into a fight, etc etc. Have you ever been to a poorly managed club? They don't have a community, don't focus on a holistic clubbing experience, have many people with really bad vibes. Would you want to stay there for a night and the next day (night time + day time raves)?

> underground cliques

Let's be honest, techno is not underground in Berlin, these clubs are a massive tourist attraction. Berghain is not a 50 person dive bar in SOMA.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#189

Post by kabes »

gillesjacobs wrote: post #76
this_user wrote: post #38

> "Berlin nightlife is very free," he says. "It's trying to push artistic boundaries. It's trying to push personal boundaries. It's trying to let people experience music, art and culture with some rules. But those rules are created to have no rules." I'm not sure this guy could be more pretentious if he tried. Maybe they should consider that this kind of attitude might be part of the problem.

You will be hard pressed to find a more pretentious music scene than (European) techno. And I am saying this as someone who enjoys the music.

Berlin techno*. Many other European techno clubs are just about having fun. In Berlin many clubs have elevated snobbism to an art form.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#190

Post by bookaway »

tern wrote: post #172
kristopolous wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's a form of segregation. A place whose roots are in Bohemian, black, gay and trans clubs with specific focus on welcoming outcasts should be explicitly inclusive. Traveling to Asia, South America and Europe to meet with electronic artists I've never had any interest in attempting to go to the segregated clubs of Berlin. I find it offensive. There's plenty of ones that don't discriminate.

Here just to share that I think "segregated" night clubs are essential for creating a publicly accessible and safe + positive vibe club experience. Your other options are (a) let anyone in and you get a**** and total dilution of cultural values (quick death of the institution) or (b) it's a private party and you're not invited. For accessible and good, you can stay on your toes and find new, smaller clubs and scenes…

> (a) let anyone in and you get a** and total dilution of cultural values (quick death of the institution)

The counterargument to your point is somewhat self-evident: all the great nightclubs in Berlin that have way more relaxed entrances than Berghain that aren't filled with assholes and aren't completely diluted of cultural values.

Often times it's the exclusivity that attracts the assholes who normally don't listen to that kind of music anyway.

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