Apple is the biggest company in the world, other companies are not. With great power comes great responsibility.
While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
11–20 of 106 posts
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#12Apple has been proactive in making sure their employees are well taken care of, here and abroad, and they've been doing this for the past decade.
They've been auditing suppliers in various ways for far longer than this story has even been in the news, going back at least to the 1990s.
Sure, Apple is the biggest, most profitable tech company, and it is also the one with the biggest brand. I think Apple's brand is a huge factor here- it is a global brand, it is associated with really good values such as quality, respect, integrity, etc, and thus it is the most attractive brand the put dirt on.
This explains why media, and unscrupulous people focus on attacking Apple for "working conditions".
But the reality is, when Foxconn has positions open to work for Apple, they get massive numbers of people who want to come work for them. Everyone in china has methods of communication, if Apple wasn't the best place to work, they wouldn't have so many applicants. Word would get out.
Apple solved this problem before it ever became a problem, but they are attacked because their brand is strong, and the people attacking them lack integrity.
They're also being attacked because it fits a political agenda. Unions and regulation have destroyed the manufacturing employment levels in the USA (actual manufacturing capacity is higher now than then, but a lot fewer people are employed) and so rather than recognize themselves as the cause of business moving overseas, they wish to demonize the businesses that did move overseas in the hope of coercing them to move back here. Every political season there are proposals that companies be punished for doing business overseas. This is why.
Thus perpetuating the fantasy that Apple runs sweatshops or uses "slave labor" is politically motivated.
The reality: When Foxconn cut back overtime (in response to this muckraking) the employees were very upset. They want to work more hours.
The employees have spoken...
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I digressed. My original point is, that all these other companies are benefiting from Apple leading the way here. Apple is teaching the chinese how to be ethical and to treat employees well, by requiring it, and all these other manufacturers are benefiting from that.
This is a cost to apple, and it is a profit to those other manufacturers.
Thus it is really ironic when the media smears apple-- the company that has literally revolutionized manufacturing in china, as far as working conditions go.
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#13Apple is handling this issue well (and much better than their competitors). But the real "issue" here is something that Apple has understood for a while. "The jobs aren't coming back" is a product of many factors, and the cost of labor is a red herring in this debate.
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
$575 profit per iPhone? I think you mixed up profit with something else, maybe average sale price. In a free market, profit isn't determined by cost or your intuition about "fairness". Price is determined by supply and demand, and profit is price minus cost. Foxxconn already pays well above average wages while providing a safer workplace than the average US manufacturer, and a lower suicide rate than the Chinese aver…
>> [Foxconn provides] a safer workplace than the average US manufacturer Would really love to see some data that backs up that assertion.
https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/ph...
which gives a data source and is linked from
http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-blog/2012-03-20-now-can-we-star...
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#15As we are constantly reminded here, Apple takes 80% of the phone industry profits and thus deserve proportionate blame for working conditions. They make $575 in profit from an iPhone but pay the Foxconn workers $7 to assemble it. They could double the pay and still make a very huge profit. On the other hand, many other companies like Amazon and Microsoft sell the hardware for a loss, hoping to make it up on software…
Should Samsung be excluded from criticism because they discount their prices? Even though they make more phones than Apple?
If Apple decided to lower their prices to compete more aggressively with Android, would that absolve Apple of majority responsibility in your eyes?
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#16The real irony, to my mind is this: Apple is the company with the most integrity I've ever known. This manifests itself everywhere- from product quality to service at Apple stores. Apple has been proactive in making sure their employees are well taken care of, here and abroad, and they've been doing this for the past decade. They've been auditing suppliers in various ways for far longer than this story has even been…
Now, I agree with the premise of the linked article that Apple has been unfairly tarnished for problems that are endemic to the industry as a whole.
But to flip this around and claim that Apple is somehow a champion fighting for workers rights is ... just weird (and I'll admit that it makes me sad to see this kind of completely unselfaware fawning on a site where discussion used to be a lot more intellectually robust). Like the rest of the industry, Apple didn't do poop about chinese workers until they were embarassed.
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#17As we are constantly reminded here, Apple takes 80% of the phone industry profits and thus deserve proportionate blame for working conditions. They make $575 in profit from an iPhone but pay the Foxconn workers $7 to assemble it. They could double the pay and still make a very huge profit. On the other hand, many other companies like Amazon and Microsoft sell the hardware for a loss, hoping to make it up on software…
That $575 number is nonsensical; the iPhone 4S (the most expensive model) costs $599 off-contract. These phones do not cost $25 to make. The real number is somewhere around $300, most of which paid by the carrier: http://www.asymco.com/2012/02/26/iphone-sine-qua-non/ . Regardless, doubling the pay for workers does not solve the real issue here. Their wages are already above average for Chinese factory workers in that…
> the iPhone 4S (the most expensive model) costs $599 off-contract
649 according to the store, and that's for the 16GB version, the 64GB one is 849. According to http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iph... anyway.
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#18The real irony, to my mind is this: Apple is the company with the most integrity I've ever known. This manifests itself everywhere- from product quality to service at Apple stores. Apple has been proactive in making sure their employees are well taken care of, here and abroad, and they've been doing this for the past decade. They've been auditing suppliers in various ways for far longer than this story has even been…
Apple is using a Chinese manufacturing company and giving them a lot of business. A LOTTTTT of business. This is a good thing.
But you can't go from there to claim that Apple is somehow teaching the poor Chinese, who are incapable of ethical action. It sounds very insulting the way you put it :(
I do wholeheartedly agree with the statement that the peculiar focus on Apple for Foxconn's bad working conditions is very strange. It's not like Foxconn is the only manufacturing company, nor is Apple their only customer.
Edit: I can grammar.
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> [Foxconn provides] a safer workplace than the average US manufacturer Would really love to see some data that backs up that assertion.
I got it from https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/ph... which gives a data source and is linked from http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-blog/2012-03-20-now-can-we-star...
The data for: https://twitter.com/#!/nicepaul/status/163797296306331648/ph...
as indicated at the bottom, comes from: http://onforb.es/wj2Lt6
which maps to: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/01/29/the-apple...
If you look at Tim Worstall's (kinda op-ed) article on the second page, you can see that the author says that if the fatalities rate in Foxconn was the same as that in the US, we would expect to have 35 fatalities / year. Then he says that we only heard about 3-4 workers hurt at Foxconn, hence the rate is lower. That argument is flawed because what we hear on the news cannot be construed to represent all fatalities at Foxconn. I suspect that the fatalities rate at Foxconn is not publicized (because it doesn't have to be).
Another issue is that to determine the relative safety of the workplaces, the author is only looking at workplace fatalities. What about looking at accidents that leave the workers unable to work or maimed?
Bottom line, I don't think the incomplete data that we have supports the assertion that Foxconn is a safer workplace.
Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent
#20Apple is the biggest company in the world, other companies are not. With great power comes great responsibility.