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One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

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Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#291

Post by Obscurity4340 »

mrexroad wrote: post #121
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you try it and see? Some of my best sleeps were after a sleepless night and for only like 1-3 hours, caffeine or other stimulants in the blood be damned Edit: also make sure you have bright blue light during wakeup/morning/day and mellow non-overhead orangey/amber/yellow light (nothing east of yellow) at evening/night. Red 2 hours before bedtime for bonus "points"

Not to be flippant, but that’s called sleep deprivation. I did this daily for 18-24mo straight, sleeping a 3h block early morning (~4:30-7:30) and a 27min nap aligned with my sleep/wake cycle during mid-afternoon. I did this without caffeine, stimulants, sugar, etc. After having more kids I couldn’t keep the daily consistency required and scaled back to 1-3x a week. I spent years convinced that it elevated my coding,…

Also: paragraphs ;)

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#292

Post by mrguyorama »

arcticbull wrote: post #257
Aurornis wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrarians and cynics have been trying the "barely better than placebo" angle for decades, but antidepressants are indeed superior to placebo. You can find articles and reviews that play games with statistics, cherry pick studies, and use various thresholds for effect size to try to downplay it, but they do work for a lot of people. > While early trials showed a big difference between antidepressants and placebos, m…

> Contrarians and cynics... I don't think they're contrarians and cynics although some undoubtedly are. They seem to be study authors. The fact is treatments, even broadly used ones, aren't always super effective. Sometimes they're just the only ones we have, and we as humans have a bias towards action being over inaction in medical care. I may be contrarian and cynical in a lot of things, but modern medicine isn't o…

>The study that I linked showing the 30%-40% numbers are from FDA data. There's no games played, the study authors got the FDA data by FIOA.

Most people who take SSRIs and swear by them have had to try multiple of them to find one that works (usually very well) for them. A study that only looks at one drug will have a much lower rate of success than a study that looked at SSRIs as an entire class of medicine.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#293

Post by yieldcrv »

naasking wrote: post #285
yieldcrv wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m getting a kick out of how this is the same “because” for every drug that becomes a dependency for the exact same reason

Not really. Melatonin has decades of long-term studies behind it, no serious issues. The biggest problems are dosing. Many supplements include way too much.

it wasn't a rebuttal, it was an observation

do people really not know how to debate anymore? your argument would get an F at Harvard Debate Club because of the strength of your argument, not the accuracy of it.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#294

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

thowaway91234 wrote: post #230
erikpukinskis wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note for anyone reading: you can get an SSRI prescription from your GP (general practitioner i.e. normal doctor) you don’t need to go through a psychiatrist. This is especially true if you are at risk for withdrawal, they will want to prevent that.

I tried this once, Family Doctor actually ended up giving me a dose that was twice the maximum anyone is ever supposed to take. Thankfully the Pharmacist told me that was an extremely bad idea and he just gave me my normal dose and I continued on for a bit. After that was when I ended up cold turkey because I lost my doctor and psychiatrists during a big move and couldn't get a refill at any clinic in the new town. I…

2 years of recovery just sounds scary

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#295

Post by ta988 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #155
Waterluvian wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep anymore. Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.

Look into weaker THC analogues like delta-8-THC or delta-10-THC. They have weaker binding profiles and half-lives than normal THC does. Same thing with CBD and its analogues. CBN will knock me out and it isn't active at CB1 like THC is, so it doesn't get you high.

Don't use delta 8 none of that stuff is purified it is a giant mess. There are a ton of articles on the analysis of d8.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#296

Post by ta988 »

bdamm wrote: post #69
Waterluvian wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep anymore. Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.

Being unable to sleep is a common withdrawal symptom for cannabis use disorder. Congratulations, you are habituated, and long-term problems are likely accumulating as you are losing out on REM sleep and probably developing emotional and physical conditions related to cannabis use. Good luck!

Yes, unfortunately that's part of the things that are not told by the people pushing cannabis as a safe drug to use. Maybe it is not deadly, but it is still habit forming and can have extremely negative consequences. I wish people would know more about them.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#297

Post by deprecative »

As someone with (not diagnosed) depression and (diagnosed) insomnia I have never thought about it but I think this tracks with my experience sort of. I regularly go 24 hours or more without sleep and tend to feel only tiredness - not my other symptoms of depression.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#298

Post by Timon3 »

Aeolun wrote: post #156
Timon3 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have the same sleep problem (head won't stop racing), and mindfulness exercises throughout the day have greatly improved things for me. In a way it feels like the ability to turn it down for a time, long enough to get so tired it doesn't start back up again. One trick I found myself is to visualise things in the noise from your closed eyes. Try to interpret something you can vaguely see, and then try to vis…

> visualise things in the noise from your closed eyes Ooh, the visualization whirlwind. This is the first time I’ve ever hear anyone talk about it or had to give it a name. At least for me it’s just tons of images flashing before my eyes, rapidly changing, only tenuously guided by my mind.

That's a great name!

Imposing the images works for me similarly to when you "can't unsee" something. Like when you start seeing something specific in a generic shape or pattern, like with clouds. I tell myself that I see something, which makes me actually visualise it.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#299

Post by Waterluvian »

ethanbond wrote: post #130
Waterluvian wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I’ve tried. My problem is that 3-4 days of no sleep and I’m just about ready to sign off from this life. I’ve managed with 5mg THC pills for years. Never had to increase the dosage. I’ve never ever slept well. But back before kids it was easier to just sleep in if I had to. As best as I can tell, the cause is my adhd or related. My brain will simply. Not. Stop. Racing.

I highly recommend the podcast Sleep With Me. It’s extremely weird and the guy’s voice isn’t exactly “comforting” the way most sleep-inducing things try to be, but give it a few tries. It’s basically bedtime “stories” that are more like improvised narrative mazes that are just interesting enough to keep your interest (and exhaust your brain) but not interesting or meaningful enough to keep you awake. I went from layi…

I’m loving this podcast. The only thing I wish is that I could turn on an effect to make it sound like he’s on a medium quality FM radio signal as I’m driving.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#300

Post by manquer »

Gud wrote: post #263
manquer wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OP meant to say, these are not drugs is not something you can OD with easily and kill yourself, not that they are side effect free .

In many cases they have induced suicide. There are many ways something can be unsafe.

There are many ways to regulate too. SSRIs are not OTC for the same reason.

There are many drugs a GP can prescribe that are just as dangerous or more so.

There is a reason SSRI are schedule 4 and not schedule 2 . They cannot kill you the same way [1]

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[1] While there is a lot of politics in the classification and putting weed or LSD in schedule 1 is very questionable the list is generally medically accurate.

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