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One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

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Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#221

Post by fsckboy »

alpaca128 wrote: post #210
fsckboy wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anti depressants (and other drugs) have side effects, both in the short term and the long. Patients who want drugs may lie. Trained professionals, yes exactly, but need to have practical experience in an area of medicine to be an effective advocate for the patient. I can't even believe I'm having to defend this position in front of this crowd, but now many GP's dismissed the symptoms of women's post-partum depression…

> but now many GP's dismissed the symptoms of women's post-partum depression Weird example given you're arguing against GPs prescribing antidepressants because patients may lie. And I'd like to see someone lying to get SSRIs out of all the possible choices.

I'm arguing that in the US doctors can prescribe all medications regardless of their specialty (because it's true) and that it's not always a good idea, for example if the doctor is not familiar with recognizing the side effects which are outside of his specialty. (because that's also true) Your shrink is not going to prescribe you statins, as an example, but they could. It's important for a GP to recognize depression, but that doesn't mean they should treat depression, just as they should not give you a heart transplant.

You're arguing like something as at stake for you or you have bone to pick, I'm saying very generic anodyne things, i'm arguing for sober reasonableness.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#222

Post by jamestimmins »

pedalpete wrote: post #168

The impact of sleep restriction on depression has been known for decades (though most of the research I'm seeing is from late 2010s on [1], this link says "from the beginning of the last century [2]) However, sleep deprivation as a treatment needs to be balanced with the health impact of sleep deprivation itself. A single night of lost sleep can have significantly detrimental impact on long-term health. Insulin respo…

Ironically, I've had several bouts of depression kicked off by pulling an all-nighter.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#223

Post by fsckboy »

rl3 wrote: post #161
fsckboy wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any medical doctor of any specialization can legally prescribe anything. that doesn't make it a good idea. a piece of supporting evidence is that the doctor's malpractice insurance may not cover any "cowboy" prescribing tendencies.

As other comments said, GPs routinely prescribe SSRIs. Moreover, it's not remotely cowboy to ensure continuity of care arising from exigent circumstances.

I didn't say it was "cowboy" which I put in quotes and you didn't, I simply said what I said, that insurers can put restrictions on doctors based on their specialties (true fact), that you (as a doctor) fear your insurer considering you to be a cowboy (also a true fact). Malpractice is something to worry about, including whoever educated you :) to look for the worst possible interpretation of what somebody says.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#224

Post by yunwal »

nwienert wrote: post #110
pstuart wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll get plenty of advice and it's worth evaluating it all (as we're all different), but trazodone has been a miracle worker in aiding sleep. It's cheap, well understood, and the only negative aspect I've encountered is the risk of priapism (which can sound like a joke but should be taken very seriously)

Trazodone felt like a Nuke to me, tried it for sleep but whew what a crazy strong (bad) feeling it gave me.

I’m glad to be seeing this because I went down all the way to 25mg. My doctor said there was no way I was getting side effects at that dose, but I felt awful every morning for the first 4 or 5 hours of the day.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#225

Post by waterhouse »

PreachSoup wrote: post #188
Hard_Space wrote: post #35

Having suffered from severe depression for over forty years, this reminds me of when I was 17, 18, etc. and suddenly discovered that if I stayed up for two days, the problem went away. So I knew this a very long time ago; but it always seemed to me that, besides smoking, this was just about one of the worst habits you could develop. By my mid-twenties, I had stopped.

Seems that I'm in the opposite. If I don't get enough sleep I would have noticeable bad mood.

I think, here, there is an effect from "zero sleep" that you don't get from "not enough sleep" (which I'm guessing is at least a couple of hours).

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#226

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

fsckboy wrote: post #204
brokencode wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all you need is a refill on a prescription you’ve been taking for 10 years, how is that “cowboy” prescribing? Also, these are trained professionals with years of education we’re talking about, not some random dude off the street.

anti depressants (and other drugs) have side effects, both in the short term and the long. Patients who want drugs may lie. Trained professionals, yes exactly, but need to have practical experience in an area of medicine to be an effective advocate for the patient. I can't even believe I'm having to defend this position in front of this crowd, but now many GP's dismissed the symptoms of women's post-partum depression…

This is one topic that used to surprise me but I learned better. Hackernews readers seem to be a higher percentage than typical on SSRIs. That and I think we have no idea just how many people are really on them.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#227

Post by pstuart »

k9unit wrote: post #219
pstuart wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not tried it yet, but CBN seems to be the winner in this category. It's legal in all states if pure. Black Friday is coming and I plan on getting some from a vendor I've used in the past. Ping me for that info if you wish. YMMV.

Try buying a quarter pound of CBD hemp and turn it into a small amount of concentrated oil. I want to spread the word, this is the way. The best bang for your buck and highest quality oil you can get, better than most commercially available edible products. I wrote some more info and my process on another comment on here. If your interested, I can write more here too.

I've bought CBD distillate and augmented regular tincture provided by a friend. I used to smoke a lot of weed and can no longer do so (lungs and head have had enough). For actual "head space" it's hard to beat inhaling but one must do what the body needs...

I saw your other comment and am intrigued. What do you use to extract with? Ethanol? Glycerine? Link to the tek?

As to your other comment about pharma -- I'm a believer in the right tool for the job. "Natural" is always preferred but sometimes the lads in the lab can deliver results too.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#228

Post by jrapdx3 »

Relationship of sleep and depression is a very interesting topic that despite decades of observation and research is still poorly understood.

As other comments point out, the potential beneficial effect of sleep deprivation (SD) has been noted for a long time. It's also correct that effects tend to be transient and quite varied among study subjects.

A recent comprehensive meta-analysis [0] showed that overall, extant studies of sleep deprivation in depression are too inconsistent to allow drawing firm conclusions regarding its merit. To quote the authors, "...it is uncertain whether SD affects quality of sleep, health‐related quality of life, everyday functioning or length of hospital stay. Generally, the method is well‐tolerated, although the risk of switch to mania exists. Albeit the low grade of evidence, the treatment method of SD should be considered an important part of the future research in rapid relief of depression".

For clinicians, the careful scientific approach emphasizes need to accumulate clear evidence of efficacy and safety before prescribing SD to those suffering major depression.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7839702

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#229

Post by thowaway91234 »

Mortiffer wrote: post #180
thowaway91234 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently was forced off of SSRIs after nearly ten years because I lost my psychiatrist and couldn't get a new one because the waitlists were ridiculous. After 10 years on them, the next 6 months were absolute hell (i legit thought at one point I might go full Joaquin Phoenix in Joker) but I made it through, no small part thanks to my wonderful amazing wife. Rebound depression have been an issue - though in general…

That's terrible man. I hate being dependent on a doc. Try to reduce this horrible risk by going up and down on dose to get a little stock pile to feel a bit safer. But changes little I guess

I'm totally off the SSRIs now and will never go back. Rebounds used to be frequent, then like 6-12 months apart now - now I don't remember when my last one was...

Going cold turkey was absolute hell, but it worked out well for me because of my excellent support system.

Would not recommend at all for anyone else though, absolutely not: tapering with a doctor is 100% the best course of action.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#230

Post by thowaway91234 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #114
thowaway91234 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently was forced off of SSRIs after nearly ten years because I lost my psychiatrist and couldn't get a new one because the waitlists were ridiculous. After 10 years on them, the next 6 months were absolute hell (i legit thought at one point I might go full Joaquin Phoenix in Joker) but I made it through, no small part thanks to my wonderful amazing wife. Rebound depression have been an issue - though in general…

Just a side note for anyone reading: you can get an SSRI prescription from your GP (general practitioner i.e. normal doctor) you don’t need to go through a psychiatrist. This is especially true if you are at risk for withdrawal, they will want to prevent that.

I tried this once, Family Doctor actually ended up giving me a dose that was twice the maximum anyone is ever supposed to take. Thankfully the Pharmacist told me that was an extremely bad idea and he just gave me my normal dose and I continued on for a bit.

After that was when I ended up cold turkey because I lost my doctor and psychiatrists during a big move and couldn't get a refill at any clinic in the new town.

It ended up working out, but it took about a year of absolute torture and probably about another year of just "weirdness". But these days I'm "normal" and off the drugs and never been happier.

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