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An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

android-developers.googleblog.com

61–70 of 247 posts

Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#61
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a place that applications can store such data without my knowledge or control, and I don't trust applications enough to be comfortable with them having that ability. Don't get me wrong, it's not a major issue for me, it's just uncomfortable. It just means I prefer my machines to not have TPM hardware in them.

I'm not storing my fingerprint anywhere else.

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Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#62
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm… what? Your beef is with things like Pluton, Intel’s ME and AMD’s PSP. TPM at their base are nothing else than a more secure place to store cryptographic data.

TPM at their base are nothing else than a more secure place to store cryptographic data. One which you, as the owner, don't have the keys to.

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Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#63
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm… what? Your beef is with things like Pluton, Intel’s ME and AMD’s PSP. TPM at their base are nothing else than a more secure place to store cryptographic data.

Don’t forget that the anti-TPM stuff comes from the guy, RMS, who opposes “sudo” because it serves to let a machine owner control and audit use of super-user commands, whereas just having a root password shared by multiple users gives anyone who learns the password the freedom to do whatever they want with plausible deniability. He has a very strange and quaint way of thinking but people uncritically parrot him witho…

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Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and according to discussions at that time Palladium would be always on, on all PCs and it would banish Linux from all PCs making Windows the some possible OS.. Which is totally what happened, right? /s

and it would banish Linux from all PCs making Windows the some possible OS We're getting closer to that with things like "secure" boot. Fortunately that can still be disabled, but MS even required that on ARM platforms it can't. The bigger Linux distros have bent over and gotten MS to sign their bootloaders, essentially making them at the mercy of MS.

This is a weird way to describe an open, transparent standard.

https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot#What_is_UEFI_Secure_Boot_...

Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#65
post #48

I expect to see the usual Google approach: back off, then come back with another take on the same thing, but wrapped differently.

They have been tamed in the past. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Google Native Client was completely discontinued and wasm was adopted eventually. I see that as a victory for the open internet.

I'm not sure WASM is markedly different from PNaCL, other than using SSA-based LLVM bitcode instead of a stack-based bytecode.

Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#66
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm… what? Your beef is with things like Pluton, Intel’s ME and AMD’s PSP. TPM at their base are nothing else than a more secure place to store cryptographic data.

Don’t forget that the anti-TPM stuff comes from the guy, RMS, who opposes “sudo” because it serves to let a machine owner control and audit use of super-user commands, whereas just having a root password shared by multiple users gives anyone who learns the password the freedom to do whatever they want with plausible deniability. He has a very strange and quaint way of thinking but people uncritically parrot him witho…

Given that RMS has a pretty good track record or predicting the kinds of abuses that we're seeing today, it seems like a good idea to at least pay attention to his ideas and not dismiss them out of hand.

Also, you know, GNU.

Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and according to discussions at that time Palladium would be always on, on all PCs and it would banish Linux from all PCs making Windows the some possible OS.. Which is totally what happened, right? /s

and it would banish Linux from all PCs making Windows the some possible OS We're getting closer to that with things like "secure" boot. Fortunately that can still be disabled, but MS even required that on ARM platforms it can't. The bigger Linux distros have bent over and gotten MS to sign their bootloaders, essentially making them at the mercy of MS.

I’ve complained about this before, but I’ve been hearing “Microsoft is going to block you from installing Linux!” since like 2004, when it was a reliable way to get an easy “+5 Insightful” on Slashdot. It hasn’t happened, even on Microsoft’s own first-party computers.

At this point I think it’s firmly FUD and the people who say it’s coming any second now need to put up the evidence. Microsoft doesn’t seem to care, especially now that Windows is an afterthought to Azure, O365, etc.

Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#69
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webviews are particularly vulnerable though, being used for embedded logins for sometimes dubious 3rd party apps. Is there a reasonable angle to view this from? I personally don't think embedded webviews should be allowed general browsing capability unless they are part of a standalone browser. It's usually a trick to capture traffic that would otherwise go off to the open web.

If that's the problem you're trying to solve, disallow embedded ~~logins~~ webviews and do it through a proper browser, same as on a regular computer. The other way seems overkill and smells like foul play to me.

I'm not sure how you disallow embedded login without disallowing embedded webviews. The line is very blurry.

Re: An experimental Android WebView Media Integrity API early next year

#70
post #51

Can anyone summarize what WEI is an why its bad?

DRM for web browsing. A website would be able to request an attestation that your browser is “trusted”, i.e. it is secure and unmodified. Because some systems are by definition untrusted, e.g. Linux, or Firefox compiled from source, these users might be blocked from certain websites. At least that seemed like the intention, otherwise what’s the point of building such a feature?
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