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How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

ycombinator.com

41–50 of 257 posts

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this depends on what you view as “getting screwed.” If the under the hood line engineers aren’t getting wild compensation for products they built generating wild compensation for the engineers/researchers working on the end product, yes that is a fair point. If it’s these engineers not getting the recognition of Chief AI scientist and so on, that’s misguided I think. There is nothing worse than working under…

I don't think a CUDA engineer, or a researcher working on optimization or distributed computing should get the same recognition as a Chief of anything. But dare I say that writing optimized code to run on clusters is just as hard as coming up with a new deep learning architecture? Actually having done both, it is harder, at least for me. The authors of "Attention is all you need" got all the recognition. The people w…

Recognition and leadership roles isn’t based on hardness of the completed task. Never has been. A good leader will make sure the credit is spread out though, yes. Why:

- Really hard or really easy things can generate the same revenue

- Chief of X can screw up the leadership with hard or easy products if they can’t lead and explain to external audiences

- external audiences deal with a million things to be an audience to. It’s wishing on a dream that that audience will dig into “well who actually built this” vs moving on to w/e other thing is trying to capture their attention.

Put that together, recognition comes from glueing things and people together successfully, explaining how it works to outside world/clients, and steering the product away from an optimized elegant solution to w/e people will actually use.

Ever since tech stopped being academic/open source and got revenue linked to it, “thems the rules.”

Speaking of SWE survival guides, engineers often seem to ignore, hate, or argue this topic always, and meanwhile the smaller set of engineers who get on board with this (ugly, yes) reality tend to do well.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#42

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

While it's hard to comment on a specific situation, in my experience engineers are typically more interested in cash compensation rather than equity, even with less than 10 employees. And this is when offering them the option; they just choose the cash most of the time. Meanwhile, the founding team often is just paying themselves stipends for rent. So there's some classic risk tolerance here: if the company fails (which 90% of startups do), the founders have burned all their savings and have skills that are more broad than deep, whereas the employees are better off, and often more hireable given the skills they've developed in their specialization. Also, when things aren't going well for the company, the engineers can put out feelers to leave ship and line up another job, whereas the founders typically have to go down with the ship and shut the entire company down if they are exhausted.

Yes, in the small % of cases the company is very successful, the founders will gain more, but it's disingenuous to not consider the risk.

Startups are not a risk-adjusted way to maximize earning potential for nearly anybody --- not even VCs! VC returns overall typically are less than S&P500.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#43

As a higher income earner I've always found it important to spend the money to ask a Lawyer, CPA, second Doctor, Mentor, Coache, Inspector, and other people focused on a certain niche in life what they think for the $100/hr (or whatever) fee they charge. Always been worth it. If you're focused on tech, make sure you've hired the right people to review your NDA's, startup contract, new home purchase, or workout routin…

Here's a submission that I made this morning (never made it out of new):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38111370

It's an old video of a lecture Mike Monteiro (and his lawyer) did.

Kinda speaks to this.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#44
post #16

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

That's street smart

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#45

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

Wasn't it jwz who first widely pointed this out: startup stock is a lottery ticket. Nobody should take 1/2 wages because their boss gave them a lottery ticket.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#46

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

My experience of TPMs in the industry is indeed unfortunately people who were not particularly good at sw dev, and who are not particularly good at project management, either. But they take care of all the charts and annoying stuff and technical managers and directors can hold their hand while they pretend to be know what they are doing by using jargon.

OK, that was harsh. But not always far from the truth!

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#47
post #17

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

Explain acronyms please?

To dissent from the other answers- thought TPM was Technical Program Manager.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#48

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

TPM at Amazon is a very high bar, and usually requires a technical background. I have one old coworker who got it, and didn't make it very long, saying it was too challenging. I've never seen someone on the TPM ladder directly manage SWEs at google. Microsoft is different, the whole place is a shit show.

The L6 TPM bar at amazon is way below the L6 SDE/SDM bar. Its not even close

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#49
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an old saying If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?

Better?: If you're so smart, why aren't you happy?

I agree it's better - I think the context is a response to people complaining about all the "dumber" people that have it better than them

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#50

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

I love this comment because IMHO most organizations that have become dysfunctional host a large number of individuals that have hacked the company ranks the way you describe.

The pattern is identical in other industries and even in academia. Professors are supposed to be technical staff, but in reality most have become middle-managers bossing around scientists much smarter than them (paraphrasing the OP). Plus, they usually claim all credit for any breakthrough.

As a European, I think the US industry is much more innovative because this is less of a problem. It is still an issue, but at least technical people get some recognition.

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