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How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

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Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#11
Industry wide, not even in startups, the people who get screwed the most are the ones working under the hood. I am not even talking about the disparity between SWEs and C-suites. I'm talking within the engineering domain. The closer you are to the application side the more credit you get for the effort, even if it might have only been possible through the hard work of recent under the hood technological advances.

A prime example is deep learning. The people getting all the credit are the AI researchers. Now I am not trying to discredit them. But a huge part of what made the recent training of large models possible are all the other advances. All the dedicated PyTorch/C++/CUDA/MPI code that is written just to be able to scale on a HPC cluster, for example. Those people are handsomely rewarded, but they aren't getting the Chief AI scientist recognition, despite it probably being just as hard if not harder to write all the optimized code to enable and facilitate LLMs in the first place.

Before I got into deep learning I was into numerics. Numerics people get typical SWE salaries, but they aren't getting FANNG level salaries, even though their code is powering the simulations across whole industries that ultimately enable many of them to operate at all.

Now I am sure somebody will debate me on the "getting screwed" part, but it sure feels as if, the ones who use a technical library and build an application on top of it, get the recognition both for their own work and also get part of the recognition that should due-fully be bestowed on the author of the library.

But maybe this is how the entirety of society works, but one should still be conscious of this phenomenon. If we all stand on the shoulders of giants, then maybe we should also name the giants in the acknowledgements section.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#12

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

[deleted]

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not work at Amazon or amazon-like companies. They are just not worth it from a mental health, wlb, or career perspective for engineers. Find engineering/product first companies. Big tech ain't it any longer.

What would you recommend instead?

I'm loving (semi-) government. Great work/life balance and at least in the Netherlands pretty innovative and into open-source.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#14

Industry wide, not even in startups, the people who get screwed the most are the ones working under the hood. I am not even talking about the disparity between SWEs and C-suites. I'm talking within the engineering domain. The closer you are to the application side the more credit you get for the effort, even if it might have only been possible through the hard work of recent under the hood technological advances. A p…

I think this depends on what you view as “getting screwed.”

If the under the hood line engineers aren’t getting wild compensation for products they built generating wild compensation for the engineers/researchers working on the end product, yes that is a fair point.

If it’s these engineers not getting the recognition of Chief AI scientist and so on, that’s misguided I think. There is nothing worse than working under a technical SME who doesn’t know leadership, and also “product,” broadly defined.

I’ve worked on both sides of the issue and org leadership is a defined skill set the same way optimized code is. Unless the backend engineers display that leadership ability, their closeness to the internals of the technology doesn’t justify them running how the technology gets deployed.

It is the same as if you found a startup. During the ideation sessions with whatever VC buys into you, there is 5% discussion of tech, or better yet - checkbox the product mvp works. 95% who are you going to sell this to and have you spoken to them? Different skills.

When tech is a business, the tech knowledge starts to matter less, or is only a portion of the picture. The individuals that grasp that do well, SWEs who ignore this don’t IMO.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#15

As a higher income earner I've always found it important to spend the money to ask a Lawyer, CPA, second Doctor, Mentor, Coache, Inspector, and other people focused on a certain niche in life what they think for the $100/hr (or whatever) fee they charge. Always been worth it. If you're focused on tech, make sure you've hired the right people to review your NDA's, startup contract, new home purchase, or workout routin…

How do you work with/find a lawyer? Do you have them on a retainer agreement?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#16

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you

How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#17

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

Explain acronyms please?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#18
post #15

As a higher income earner I've always found it important to spend the money to ask a Lawyer, CPA, second Doctor, Mentor, Coache, Inspector, and other people focused on a certain niche in life what they think for the $100/hr (or whatever) fee they charge. Always been worth it. If you're focused on tech, make sure you've hired the right people to review your NDA's, startup contract, new home purchase, or workout routin…

How do you work with/find a lawyer? Do you have them on a retainer agreement?

upcounsel.com, cash hourly, contract review in usa will be like $300

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#19
post #15

As a higher income earner I've always found it important to spend the money to ask a Lawyer, CPA, second Doctor, Mentor, Coache, Inspector, and other people focused on a certain niche in life what they think for the $100/hr (or whatever) fee they charge. Always been worth it. If you're focused on tech, make sure you've hired the right people to review your NDA's, startup contract, new home purchase, or workout routin…

How do you work with/find a lawyer? Do you have them on a retainer agreement?

Find and work with a lawyer that helps engineers extract themselves from one firm to land at a specifically competing firm.

Since most engineers don't hire lawyers, it may be easier to find a lawyer that does this for Firm Z, to pull people from competing firms A - Y.

In either case, ideally they will have had to go to arbitration and/or court against the original employer.

This person will know what to look for in masses of boilerplate to help you zero in on and fix the 10 words here and there that can change not just your comp but your career options.

Expect from $300 - $750 / hr, depending on the size role you're lawyering, which tends to indicate the amount of legalese, traps, and foot guns at play.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#20

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

Sadly this is mostly true. It used be at $bigtech you needed to be the equivalent of a senior engineer (L5+) to go into management. This is categorically not the case anymore. TPMs, due to their role, work across orgs and interface more with leadership so they do seem to get a lot more visibility/exposure than normal ICs and do seem to get promoted into leadership positions more easily. My wife is less technical and…

I think alot of engineers are under the impression that if they work hard enough they will be promoted. But actually, the company gains the most from highly productive mid level engineers. These are the workhorses, they do not want to promote them.
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