Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project." • Hacker News Board

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#271

Post by knewter » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 10:45 AM UTC

woobar wrote: post #214

neilk wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's entirely within your control to limit the information you give them, carefully select privacy settings Except Facebook unilaterally changes its guarantees about privacy, year after year, always in its own favor. This takes you up to 2010: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/04/facebook-timeline In 2011 and 2012, they further codified how your private information is also subject to what your friends do. Some of…

Actually, 'information you give them' is always within your control.

Unless it's 'zero becaue i don't have an account,' I disagree. I don't know until I land on a site whether they're using fb connect.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#272

Post by majmun » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 11:05 AM UTC

psawaya wrote: post #35

jpdoctor wrote: post #30

I love rms, but he needs to learn to spend his time speaking for things and not against things. How'd the campaign against Apple go, rms?

Here's a good counterargument, entitled "In Defense of Negativity": http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20110903-00

From that site:

   "Should a campaign for abolishing child labor talk only about how valuable adult workers are to their employers or how happy kids are when they don't work?"

No, they should provide better more efficient alternative than child labor.

   "Should a campaign trying to abolish land mines talk only about the benefits of bomb-free fields and intact lower limbs?"

No, they should provide better alternative to land mines so everybody switches to it.

   "Should a free speech organization only speak out about the social welfare brought by a free press and never against acts of censorship?"

No, they should provide better means of communication that cannot be censored like that.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#273

Post by omegant » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 12:20 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #105

omegant wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very interesting that very same lack of privacity that is experienced with facebook is very similar to the kind of privacy you "enjoy" on small comunities( you can find recent articles on how is living in the malvines and it is pretty much a facebook live). Maybe is due to the fact that we are a social species, and group sizes have been mostly small till not so long ago, that you can explain the facebook succes…

Great point...I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm from LA but I moved to a village in europe with just over 1000 people. I see the same people every day, and everyone talks about each other's business. I've thought a bit about how FB is sort of trying to recreate this, and the ways in which it's failed. It can be somewhat oppressive to live in a place where everyone knows your business, even if they're al…

Ooops I ment the Falklands! Yep I know what you mean about respect and I think that facebook lack of "respect" is because it was the first socual network to pick right how people want to know everything from their friends and relatives. But as the first one also is imperfect, maybe google+'s circles are a better aproach. Time will say.. I also think that a kind of circles is the way to fix the email ( in the way PG asks)

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#274

Post by readme » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 12:29 PM UTC

charlieok wrote: post #167

coffeemug wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a world of difference between citizens complaining how their governments are corrupt, and husbands complaining how their wives boss them around. The former is a macro problem - if you're unhappy there's very little you can do to make a difference, you really need everyone to get behind your cause but because of weird behavioral science quirks this happens very rarely. The latter is a micro problem - learn to…

You tried camping and it was awesome. It was fun getting a group together and having a lot of interaction with them. Working on projects together, sharing gossip at meals and in tents, going on day trips and coming back with pictures and stories. Great stuff. People who spend time camping together share a bond and become potential lifelong friends. When camping was new, relatively few people went camping. The most ex…

I suspect most people, if they left the camp of Facebook, would not be able to round up as many "friends" by the campfire on their own, and that is why they stay. The culture of Facebook is not very exclusive. Many people will add you even if they have never spoken to you, simply because they knew who you were and would like to increase the size of their network. Excellent way to lull people into a false sense of community.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#275

Post by loceng » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 1:43 PM UTC

feralchimp wrote: post #33

I was an outspoken Facebook-hater for a long time. Perhaps my most quotable moment on HN to date was saying "I have no love for their product or their business model, but their engineering is diesel." My wife recently convinced me to give it another try. I didn't use my complete name, and was judicious about the information I associated with my profile. And yet, I proceeded to connect in a deep and healthy way with s…

The same convenience can exist on a different platform, that doesn't have the same abuse of its members/participants.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#276

Post by AlexandrB » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 2:20 PM UTC

majmun wrote: post #272

psawaya wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a good counterargument, entitled "In Defense of Negativity": http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20110903-00

From that site: "Should a campaign for abolishing child labor talk only about how valuable adult workers are to their employers or how happy kids are when they don't work?" No, they should provide better more efficient alternative than child labor. "Should a campaign trying to abolish land mines talk only about the benefits of bomb-free fields and intact lower limbs?" No, they should provide better alternative to lan…

> No, they should provide better alternative to land mines so everybody switches to it.

This is ridiculous. You're saying that anti-landmine orgs should spend their time finding more efficient ways to kill people.

> No, they should provide better more efficient alternative than child labor.

What if no such alternative exists? Just because it's economically efficient, doesn't mean it's right.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#277

Post by Karunamon » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 2:32 PM UTC

logjam wrote: post #251

Karunamon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being purposefully obtuse at this point. Maybe: "Perhaps someone who has such narrow and specialized communication needs that they need to browse the web via email isn't in the best position to be dictating what communication methods the world at large should use". Boiled down futher: "What's good (and bad) for one person with specific needs isn't the same for everyone else".

You just conflated "need" with "choose" to make what is either an obtuse or dishonest point for your own purposes. Which is it?

Do you know why RMS wgets webpages to his email instead of reading them through a browser like 99.999% of the web-using world?

If the answer is no, then you don't know if it's a need or a choice or some variation between the two - and I daresay you're accusing him of something untoward.

If the answer is yes, which is it?

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#278

Post by majmun » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 3:06 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #276

majmun wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that site: "Should a campaign for abolishing child labor talk only about how valuable adult workers are to their employers or how happy kids are when they don't work?" No, they should provide better more efficient alternative than child labor. "Should a campaign trying to abolish land mines talk only about the benefits of bomb-free fields and intact lower limbs?" No, they should provide better alternative to lan…

> No, they should provide better alternative to land mines so everybody switches to it. This is ridiculous. You're saying that anti-landmine orgs should spend their time finding more efficient ways to kill people. > No, they should provide better more efficient alternative than child labor. What if no such alternative exists? Just because it's economically efficient, doesn't mean it's right.

> This is ridiculous. You're saying that anti-landmine orgs should spend their time finding more efficient ways to kill people.

In a sense that this new weapon would obsolete land mines, and thus solve all problems of land mines. I don't see nothing ridiculous about that.

> What if no such alternative exists? Just because it's economically efficient, doesn't mean it's right.

Let us believe that it is not like that, otherwise ultimatly everyone that not uses child labor will die out, all that not uses land mines will lose a war. And no amount of negativity will stop it.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#279

Post by marshallp » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 3:11 PM UTC

pork wrote: post #224

marshallp wrote: post #42

At this point facebook is just a branch of the NSA and CIA. They're laughing it up while the clueless kid Zuckerberg thinks he's creating "a social graph". How about an "open" social graph you jackass - you know, THE WEB. Hopefully governments step in to break up this evil oonopoly that's on it's way to another microsoft, AT&T, Standard Oil. However, it might too late already, since the NSA and CIA desperately want f…

I don't normally indulge trolls, but you're priceless! So the NSA and CIA (the government) covertly control and encourage Facebook, but you want the same government to save you from this "evil"? Cognitive dissonance much?

NSA and CIA are not the elected government that you see. Thre president or congress are not in charge, only the appearance of being in charge is shown. There's a whole secret world we're not privy to.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#280

Post by davidhollander » Sat, Apr 07, 2012, 4:29 PM UTC

fudged wrote: post #133

davidhollander wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Facebook an oppressive and authoritarian camp violating freedom seems extremely hyperbolic. Doesn't this disservice the experience of those who have actually died in oppressive and authoritarian camps? Is the mental pain individuals experience when using freely provided and voluntary services equivalent to the physical pain individuals experience when coerced to perform actions against their will via threats…

What? He/she wasn't relating it to oppressive camps at all. Perhaps re-read the comment. I think that Facebook is relatively oppressive and authoritarian in the context of online services and social software in general. Extending the analogy to another context (death camps?) is... well, I don't know how to describe the irrelevance.

You missed his or her assertion of logical equivalence between Facebook and camp:

>Facebook = camp.

If Facebook is oppressive and authoritarian, and Facebook is camp, is camp oppressive and authoritarian?

The absurdity of internment camps is relevant because his or her logic does not allow one to differentiate between the actions of Facebook and the actions of authoritarian government.