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Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

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Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#241
post #3

Since upgrading to 118 I've had random hangs of firefox every few days. Not clear why, no CPU or swap. All windows just freeze and need a "killall firefox", which works - shutting firefox down cleanly. Of course it's impossible to find anything anywhere about this due to search engine spam Was fine for years until 118 and is rare enough to not be able to reliably reproduce it (and thus do things like disabling extens…

Are you on linux? For a while I've been running into issues with FF where it will randomly halt repainting after switching tabs. The process is clearly still responding to keystrokes and mouse events, but the ui is mostly frozen.

I've also been running into an annoying issue where hover menus will randomly stop working---it seems like the mouseout event is firing before the click event is handled.

But all in all not annoying enough to switch.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attack surface matters for unknown attacks. If the browser just never gets security updates, it's got more than enough known attacks.

https://lynx.invisible-island.net/current/CHANGES.html seems to show it still getting updates; can you point to these known attacks that aren't getting fixed?

I don't know nothing about Lynx, except that I always wanted to write a CLI web browser that did support all web features like JavaScript, just to see if it'd work.

This advice mainly applies to people using old OSes or who don't update their browsers.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#243

The killer app for Firefox is it still allows some flexibility in tab management. Sidebery and TreeStyleTab have been my anchors in the FF ecosystem. The experience is so vastly superior for tab hoarders and tab-todo methodology that I really can't imagine using something else. I also use FF on android because it has ublock origin and dark reader addons. This make browsing the web on mobile far better. I actually hol…

In regards to treestyletab did you get rid of the top tabs or do you have both on your screen. I feel like i lost quite a lot of real estate on smaller screens with both.

I got rid of the top row.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#244
post #33

I like seeing Mozilla actually improving Firefox instead of just shuffling UI components around. I've been a longtime user, and am happy to support the underdog here to try and keep some balance of power on the web. Having Mozilla focus more on their tech, and less on politics is a good thing. Regardless, Firefox is a good piece of software and I have no major qualms with it.

I'm happy for Mozilla to keep shuffling UI components around - if it gets them more users then that's good, and it's vital that Mozilla be willing and permitted to take risks, instead of always being a step behind in every aspect.

For instance, FirefoxOS seems to have been a failure, but most longshots are a failure, and if you scrimp on long shots then you end up like Microsoft, realizing that some kids these days don't even have a laptop and their phone sure as hell isn't running Windows. So I'm fine with more FirefoxOS-like projects.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using anything other than a Linux distro’s stable, extended-support release? Most of the complaints on HN about Firefox instability seem to be either Windows users, or Linux users upgrading to the latest and greatest, often outside of their distro’s packaging. Meanwhile, I have been running Debian stable’s Firefox for many years and simply have never encountered the bugginess that gets described on these HN t…

I use Debian's Firefox ESR, and for at least five major (ESR) versions there's been a bug where sometimes if multiple tabs try to do a web push notification at once, the entire browser process hangs maxing out a core and nothing I do will recover from that. (I use X11 with PulseAudio.) One of these days, I'll get around to reliably reproducing it. (I haven't tried `pulseaudio -k`, which might fix it if it's an issue…

Have you tried stress testing triggering notifications over D-Bus or something? Might be a DE problem.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Debian's Firefox ESR, and for at least five major (ESR) versions there's been a bug where sometimes if multiple tabs try to do a web push notification at once, the entire browser process hangs maxing out a core and nothing I do will recover from that. (I use X11 with PulseAudio.) One of these days, I'll get around to reliably reproducing it. (I haven't tried `pulseaudio -k`, which might fix it if it's an issue…

Same here, I also use Firefox ESR from Debian packages and I've observed Firefox to lock up hard a few times. Often to the point it affects the entire desktop so not quite sure if it's a bug in Firefox itself or possibly elsewhere e.g., Wayland.

Sounds like it could be a DE or graphics driver problem. Have you checked the kernel and system logs when that happens?

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combine the good performance with great add-ons like Multi Account Containers, and Tree Style Tabs, and you have a great browser.

Or instead of Tree Style Tabs, using Simple Tab Groups which I find has far better UX: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/simple-tab-gr...

It's good to see STG praised here.

I context switch often, and am so much more productive because of this plugin.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#248

> Collecting data while holding ourselves to the highest standards of privacy can be challenging. Yes, explaining away a blatant self-contradiction can be challenging. You're not holding yourselves to the highest standards of privacy, you've explicitly prioritized data collection over privacy.

There not much harm as long they're making sure users are aware of the telemetry and can disable it if they choose to. Opt-in is best, but collecting data with consent isn't a problem

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not need it. This is a really weird attitude. Until like the late '00s "telemetry" was, full stop, spyware (still is, for those of us who didn't shift our attitudes with the prevailing winds). I wouldn't say that responsiveness to user needs and desires has improved since then, in software design.

But what is the problem? That I can know that you press the print button? That you chose the Edit menu? I really don't see the problem. Please, explain, I really want to understand.

> But what is the problem? That I can know that you press the print button?

When the internet was young, and most people were using dial up connections, just collecting the dates and times that a person was online and using a program was (and still is) a massive violation of privacy. Software "phoning home", even just to check for updates (collecting IP addresses, timestamps, and version numbers) was enough to get your software branded as spyware.

No software company needs to know which hours I'm awake, when I'm using my computer, which hours I work, which hours I use their program, how long I use their program, how long it's been since I last used their program, etc. It's intrusive, entirely none of their business, and it's insane that they all feel entitled to that kind of information.

If I print something, don't print something, or what the things I print are is also none of their business. Neither is what I'm printing it for, where I put the printout after I take it from the printer tray, or if I use tape or a thumb tack to secure it in place, but you can bet that if software could easily collect that data it would and somehow it would be considered impossible to write good software without that information.

From a privacy standpoint telemetry is always invasive, which is why I disable it any way that I can. Even without the privacy aspect telemetry is a bad idea. I don't want program updates that remove features just because I (and others) don't use them very often. I don't want updates that constantly shuffle the UI around according to how they think "most" people have been using it this week. I don't want my workflow disrupted every few months because it's uncommon. I don't want the way I choose to use the software on my device to influence how other people are expected to use it either.

Telemetry is much better when it's limited to reporting errors and bugs, but even that should be opt-in only.

Re: Firefox got faster for real users in 2023

#250
I just found out today that Firefox does not yet support the css has() selector, while Chrome has supported it for over a year now. I get that there are a lot of reasons for this, but it surprised me, I guess.

I use Firefox because its fullscreen mode is far better than all the other browsers I've tried on Linux, but it does seem like it's clearly slower to perform and slower to be able to adopt new web 'quasi'-standards.

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