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Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

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Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#111

Post by pb7 »

kkzz99 wrote: post #107
pb7 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit hard to find open, unbiased, and independent information about a country that forcibly suppresses anything negative about itself, isn't it? Jack Ma criticized the government and suddenly disappeared for years losing his position at the company in the process. If they can do that to one of the most powerful people in the country, they can do it to anyone else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ma#Disappearance_…

Jack Ma never disappeared though, same case with the Chinese Tenis player. Thats the exact same thing the other poster was criticizing. Its the western media making up stories to fit the anti-china narrative.

Just like nothing happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989, right?

Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#112

Post by persnickety »

Chris2048 wrote: post #110
persnickety wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly. It does't detract from my point, though: caring about something can result in bad consequences.

But it's categorically different. Removing pictures from CVs so that corps are unable to discriminate based on that image still maintains the concept of "employee". Doesn't removing borders effectively remove the concept of "citizen/national"?

The subject of a CV is the human, but the subject of a map is the place. Removal of borders removes the concept of a citizen, but maps are concerned with the concept of an area. Nothing of value is lost. In more practical terms, I have not encountered maps that explicitly mention the concept of a citizen, other than by drawing nation-state borders, or those that are concerned with immigration (but for those, it's a relevant concept).

Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#113

Post by kkzz99 »

jlangenauer wrote: post #2

I see we're going from "UI changes, the cause or reason of which we don't know" to "geopolitics" without considering any of the obvious alternative explanations. If China decides (and no-one is saying that it has) that it no longer recognizes Israel, then it will simply announce that, and not get a private company to make subtle UI changes to reflect a secret policy instead.

The truth is that this was always the case, no change happened. All that happened was that a known anti-china fake news "reporter" associated with the falun gong cult was spreading lies on twitter. See for example here: https://twitter.com/CurtExplores/status/1719334699599122690

Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#114

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

infamia wrote: post #98
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is very much anti-Muslim because Islamists pose a threat to its absolute power and its projected illusion of unity. A muslim is not an islamist [1], your simplification is concerning, China officially recognize Islam [2], and Uyghurs weren't subject to the 1 child policy Stick to the facts please [1] - https://humanists.international/blog/the-difference-between-... [2] - https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-rep…

> Uyghurs weren't subject to the 1 child policy It is far worse than the one child policy. Many were subjected to sterilization and involuntary birth control. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713

It's not a fact, and it's not supported by any evidence, you (and the journalists) are confusing security crackdown (due to terrorism) with genocide

Your narrative is full of contradiction

https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-saudi-arabia-...

https://apnews.com/article/syria-ap-top-news-riots-internati...

Now that the security crackdown has eased, journalists have changed their tone, or perhaps strategy ;)

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-ch...

Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#115

Post by Chris2048 »

persnickety wrote: post #112
Chris2048 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's categorically different. Removing pictures from CVs so that corps are unable to discriminate based on that image still maintains the concept of "employee". Doesn't removing borders effectively remove the concept of "citizen/national"?

The subject of a CV is the human, but the subject of a map is the place. Removal of borders removes the concept of a citizen, but maps are concerned with the concept of an area. Nothing of value is lost. In more practical terms, I have not encountered maps that explicitly mention the concept of a citizen, other than by drawing nation-state borders, or those that are concerned with immigration (but for those, it's a r…

First, if you remove detail about a person from a CV, that person still has those characteristics.

It's not clear what effect "removing borders from maps" has - if you are suggesting having no borders as in your original comment, or having them, but just removing them from maps.

In the latter case it would be massively inconvenient to not know where borders are, if there are visa issues. Plus, there isn't really an equivalence to "illegally discriminating based on seeing the border". The appearance of a single, otherwise anon individual, versus international agreement on where the borders are seem to be v. different things.

As such, interpreting as the former; "maps are concerned with the concept of an area" - they are as concerned with navigation as anything else, so include roads, and borders plus border stops. "I have not encountered maps that explicitly mention the concept of a citizen" no, but they usually name the country - I mention citizen from the perspective on how it impacts travel; presumably removing borders means there are no territories, and thus no countries; but a country is as much a collection of people (citizens) so both diminish, unless you maintain a territory-less concept of citizenship.

Not clear to me "Nothing of value is lost" - tell me how this would impact, say, Israel? or anywhere bordering Russia. Or are you only taking from the about specific cherry-picked locales?

Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#116

Post by persnickety »

Chris2048 wrote: post #115
persnickety wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subject of a CV is the human, but the subject of a map is the place. Removal of borders removes the concept of a citizen, but maps are concerned with the concept of an area. Nothing of value is lost. In more practical terms, I have not encountered maps that explicitly mention the concept of a citizen, other than by drawing nation-state borders, or those that are concerned with immigration (but for those, it's a r…

First, if you remove detail about a person from a CV, that person still has those characteristics. It's not clear what effect "removing borders from maps" has - if you are suggesting having no borders as in your original comment, or having them, but just removing them from maps. In the latter case it would be massively inconvenient to not know where borders are, if there are visa issues. Plus, there isn't really an e…

> "illegally discriminating based on seeing the border"

The problem is closer to: "the presence of pictures on CVs is detrimental to someone due to outside bias", "the presence of borders on maps is detrimental to Yandex due to outside bias". Not quite the same mechanism, but similar in spirit.

> they are as concerned with navigation as anything else

All maps are concerned with an area, some with navigation. A map of the Moon is still interesting to some non-astronauts.

I concede, if you use a map for navigation, a concept of a national border is still relevant. But in other cases, given the variety of possible geographical data, it rarely is.

Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#118

Post by infamia »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #114
infamia wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uyghurs weren't subject to the 1 child policy It is far worse than the one child policy. Many were subjected to sterilization and involuntary birth control. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713

It's not a fact, and it's not supported by any evidence, you (and the journalists) are confusing security crackdown (due to terrorism) with genocide Your narrative is full of contradiction https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-saudi-arabia-... https://apnews.com/article/syria-ap-top-news-riots-internati... Now that the security crackdown has eased, journalists have changed their tone, or perhaps strategy ;)…

> It's not a fact, and it's not supported by any evidence, you (and the journalists) are confusing security crackdown (due to terrorism) with genocide.

None of your links refute anything to do with sterilization and forced contraception, despite the numerous reports, research, and overwhelming conclusion of their validity. Your links do describe bulldozing mosques, putting Uyghars in campus, and moving in ethic Chinese Hans. Stalin did a similar thing (forcibly relocating Tartars and replacing them with Russians) when trying to eliminate the Crimean Tartars.

> Now that the security crackdown has eased, journalists have changed their tone, or perhaps strategy ;)

Those links paint a picture of a brutal (and vile) crackdown. "Joking" about a supposed cross continental conspiracy between various researchers and new agencies is pretty dark. I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#119

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

infamia wrote: post #118
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a fact, and it's not supported by any evidence, you (and the journalists) are confusing security crackdown (due to terrorism) with genocide Your narrative is full of contradiction https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-saudi-arabia-... https://apnews.com/article/syria-ap-top-news-riots-internati... Now that the security crackdown has eased, journalists have changed their tone, or perhaps strategy ;)…

> It's not a fact, and it's not supported by any evidence, you (and the journalists) are confusing security crackdown (due to terrorism) with genocide. None of your links refute anything to do with sterilization and forced contraception, despite the numerous reports, research, and overwhelming conclusion of their validity. Your links do describe bulldozing mosques, putting Uyghars in campus, and moving in ethic Chine…

> I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

Terrorism is bad and should be fought no matter what, we seen what happens when you are not pro-active (Hamas and its deadly attack in Israel)

I wish MI6 cared as much about the Palestinians as they do about the Uyghurs ;)

Re: Israel was removed from Baidu Maps earlier today

#120

Post by [deleted] »

kkzz99 wrote: post #113
jlangenauer wrote: post #2

I see we're going from "UI changes, the cause or reason of which we don't know" to "geopolitics" without considering any of the obvious alternative explanations. If China decides (and no-one is saying that it has) that it no longer recognizes Israel, then it will simply announce that, and not get a private company to make subtle UI changes to reflect a secret policy instead.

The truth is that this was always the case, no change happened. All that happened was that a known anti-china fake news "reporter" associated with the falun gong cult was spreading lies on twitter. See for example here: https://twitter.com/CurtExplores/status/1719334699599122690

[deleted]
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