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Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

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Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#301

Post by com2kid »

lxgr wrote: post #286
crazygringo wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely -- there's no significant money to be made here. Microsoft wouldn't even bother if this were a financial play, it's so small. Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself. This seems very clearly to be anti-cheat. Advantages are not "trivial…

> there's no significant money to be made here [...] Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself. Ah yes, original (or licensed) game console accessories, the well known non-profit operation... Yes, console prices are sometimes subsidized, but never accessories,…

I actually used to work with the team who made Xbox 360 controllers. Things have probably changed in the decade since, but back then I was told that MS was only making $3 or $4 profit per controller sold. Money was made in volume, not on individual units.

To explain this, imagine a consumer electronics device that costs $5 to make. The manufacturer then sells it to a distributor for $10. The distributor sells it to the store for $20. The store sells it to you for $40.

The original company making the device only nets the $5, but that doesn't include other costs. For example any fancy in-stores displays stands are put there by the manufacturer and come out for their initial $5 cut.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#302

Post by sparky_z »

crazygringo wrote: post #253
serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

I disagree completely -- there's no significant money to be made here. Microsoft wouldn't even bother if this were a financial play, it's so small. Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself. This seems very clearly to be anti-cheat. Advantages are not "trivial…

If that were the only reason, they could just ban them from online play. There's no good reason to also ban them for single-player experiences .

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#303

Post by JohnBooty »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #290
JohnBooty wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not gonna disagree with your reasons for liking or disliking a gaming console. Gaming consoles are for fun, your preferences don't have to make logical sense. But... but ever since the XBox One it's just been a bloated, slow PC with a bad interface front for Windows. Huh? The original XBox and 360 were also slow (relative to higher-end PCs of their day) systems running Windows variants.

Yes but they didn't feel slow. The One does and so do it's iterations. They all run slow, download slow, and just feel sluggish to use. Even the Switch which is INCREDIBLY limited on the hardware front feels snappy and responsive. Every console has always had worse hardware compared to a PC, that's a given, but almost all of them don't feel that way because the developers know the platform and can squeeze every last…

That makes more sense, I guess. I've never used an XBOne so I don't have an opinion as to how responsive it feels.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#304

Post by ToucanLoucan »

JohnBooty wrote: post #303
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but they didn't feel slow. The One does and so do it's iterations. They all run slow, download slow, and just feel sluggish to use. Even the Switch which is INCREDIBLY limited on the hardware front feels snappy and responsive. Every console has always had worse hardware compared to a PC, that's a given, but almost all of them don't feel that way because the developers know the platform and can squeeze every last…

That makes more sense, I guess. I've never used an XBOne so I don't have an opinion as to how responsive it feels.

It is truly awful. Menus take an atrocious amount of time to load, everything is buried several screens deep into massive UI elements that usually amount to huge boxes of solid color, the home screen itself seems to lag quite badly which is just embarrassing for a device that can also run Halo 5 at 2K/60hz without issue, is choking to death on a bunch of fucking boxes.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#305

Post by Gibbon1 »

serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

You could also just require that controllers be signed with a model type. Let the people organizing the game decide.

Ya all want to play with cheats enabled on your Fuxsor Ceatboss 6000's. Go head.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#306

Post by GaelFG »

belugacat wrote: post #162
lawn wrote: post #68

This is one reason the Steam Deck model of being an open console system is the future. Some dinosaurs wants to preserve the old locked-down console experience, where you have exclusive games, controllers and digital stores. But its just worse for the customer in every way.

The day Valve falls, for whatever reason (greed, incompetence, some impossible to predict market shift/tech innovation... Gabe doesn't have decades and decades left as CEO after all) - the open world of PC gaming as we know it will probably fall, to be devoured by the Microsoft/Epic/Ubisoft/etc of the world. Compared to most other tech/gaming companies, it's shocking how non predatory and customer friendly they are.…

The trick is as a player you are not really the main customer of steam. You are the product. The customers are game developers, and they are as predatory toward them as any big corp online store. Not worse, but not better either.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#307

Post by crazygringo »

sparky_z wrote: post #302
crazygringo wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely -- there's no significant money to be made here. Microsoft wouldn't even bother if this were a financial play, it's so small. Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself. This seems very clearly to be anti-cheat. Advantages are not "trivial…

If that were the only reason, they could just ban them from online play. There's no good reason to also ban them for single-player experiences .

I think the reason is the complexity of it, of dealing with controllers that work for some things but not for others. It creates customer confusion and opportunities for sales deception, people will keep buying controllers they expect to "just work" and then get pissed off as soon as they go into multiplayer because they didn't read the fine print. It's not a distinction that your average Joe consumer should need to worry about.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#308

Post by JohnBooty »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #304
JohnBooty wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes more sense, I guess. I've never used an XBOne so I don't have an opinion as to how responsive it feels.

It is truly awful. Menus take an atrocious amount of time to load, everything is buried several screens deep into massive UI elements that usually amount to huge boxes of solid color, the home screen itself seems to lag quite badly which is just embarrassing for a device that can also run Halo 5 at 2K/60hz without issue, is choking to death on a bunch of fucking boxes.

Yikes! And also, I really appreciate the clarification.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#309

Post by crazygringo »

lxgr wrote: post #286
crazygringo wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely -- there's no significant money to be made here. Microsoft wouldn't even bother if this were a financial play, it's so small. Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself. This seems very clearly to be anti-cheat. Advantages are not "trivial…

> there's no significant money to be made here [...] Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself. Ah yes, original (or licensed) game console accessories, the well known non-profit operation... Yes, console prices are sometimes subsidized, but never accessories,…

An official Xbox controller is usually around $50 on Amazon, and currently $54.99 from Microsoft, and that price is very much in line with comparable peripherals from other companies on Amazon (Logitech etc.). The Xbox controller build quality is excellent, and when you look at all the features like custom low-latency headset audio and extension capabilities, it's nothing like the generic controllers that are $30-40 and often wired and made of cheap plastic.

The idea that Microsoft is making a huge profit off of their own basic controllers just doesn't hold water. If the basic controller cost $99 then sure they would be. But that's not what they're charging. (I mean, you can buy a pricey Elite controller if you want, but that's not what we're talking about here.)

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#310

Post by butlike »

solardev wrote: post #140
serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

OK, maybe I'm biased here as a PC gamer who frequently uses a controller... but why not just allow both? Some games like Gears of War on Xbox already do this. Others, like Fortnite, offer crossplay and just show a symbol over each player's head. Do mouse and keyboard players have an advantage? Sure. So do players with bigger TVs or Series X graphics or less worn controllers or the Elite controller. Big deal? The PC e…

The above-the-fold answer is "to not create an arms race" where one NEEDS to buy the keyboard and mouse in addition to the controller to be competitive. The below-the-fold answer, as others have said, is for profit.
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