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Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

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Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#261

Post by qoi4j5ioq3j45 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #118
qalmakka wrote: post #80

> players have been encountering error “0x82d60002” OT: Microsoft should be banned by decree from showing naked error codes to people, I've been fighting them for decades now

No. The exact opposite. I'm sick of modern software telling me "something went wrong, try again later". Unless every possible error scenario gets its own descriptive error, that error code is a necessity. And nobody is going to accept a dev adding error messages to every possible error, because localisation to 180+ languages will cost a fortune. Your choice is between "something went wrong" and "something went wrong…

> Unless every possible error scenario gets its own descriptive error,

Yeah, that's kinda the point. Every error code gets its own text description. That's what I do, what my company does, with our code. Because technicians don't have the ability to look up error codes like engineers can. And even if they did, the ability to look up where/when the error code was generated doesn't tell you what to do about it.

Microsoft is just way below average in this area and counts on its locked-in customers not knowing how much better other companies are.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#262

Post by AlyssaRowan »

If they were restricting controllers from the start, that would be one thing, and controller exclusivity is something every console manufacturer right back to Atari has always thought about from the very beginning - mostly for cash-grab reasons, but also, much later on, with this very excuse. It's why the original XBox's USB controllers were a different shape.

But to me this feels like a clear-cut case of interoperability, unilaterally and unconditionally removed after the fact of the sale of both millions of consoles and controllers (both first-party and not). Are they sure they want to do that? Now?

This also reminds me very much of Sony's removal of OtherOS in the PS3, and I draw the analogy with what happened to the console's security afterwards very much in mind.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#263

Post by rekoil »

VikingCoder wrote: post #244

If you want to enforce this in competitive e-sports situations... ...or allow a specific game to say "this server is 1st party controller only" or something like that, yeah, maybe, I can see the logic. But a blanket block-out is obviously bullshit.

I honestly think that might be more damaging.

Third-party alternatives must be allowed, the problem is Microsoft changing the rules long after shipping the console, in a way that not all perfectly fine controllers could be updated to handle.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#264

Post by snarfy »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #232
snarfy wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm competitive. I simply won't play FPS that have aim assist in multiplayer. If a controller has a disadvantage to KBM, they should learn to use KBM, not give them a built-in aimbot.

Or maybe they could just ban KBM play.

I agree with this for consoles. I think the main issue is cross play. One solution would be to make cross play opt-in. It's not fair to either group.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#265

Post by ComputerGuru »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #237
narinxas wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why purposefully handicap your player base instead of letting them use whatever they want? for the same reasons giant corps do anything: Profit! they think, and likely will, sell more "official" (i.e. premium price) controllers

Realistically though, how much financial upside can we possibly be talking about here? Many controllers the enable this "cheating" were also probably +1 buys as well, not lost sales of official accessories. I just have a hard time believing that controller hardware sales are the primary driver of this.

I don’t think those controllers are actually the targets, financially speaking, here. They’re the excuse. The target is “normal” controllers that sell for less than Microsoft’s does and are bought by people around the world looking to save money when buying another three controllers.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#266

Post by CharlesW »

Garvi wrote: post #145

Nothing Apple hasn't been doing for years at much greater magnitudes without many objections from the tech crowd. Makes me sick to the stomach, but everyone seems to love Steve Jobs, the genius inventor, that never actually invented anything and died of a treatable cancer because he actually was a complete moron and didn't get treatment, because "he knew better" and opted for alternative medicine. Which reminds me of…

> Nothing Apple hasn't been doing for years at much greater magnitudes without many objections from the tech crowd.

I'm sincerely sorry that you retain this emotional bile to the degree that you're compelled to express it in an unrelated thread here. It's unpleasant to read, but I imagine it's far harder to live with.

What's an example of a standards-based USB device that works with Windows and Linux, but that Jobs blocked on macOS?

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#267

Post by ComputerGuru »

michaelt wrote: post #206
snarfy wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm competitive. I simply won't play FPS that have aim assist in multiplayer. If a controller has a disadvantage to KBM, they should learn to use KBM, not give them a built-in aimbot.

> If a controller has a disadvantage to KBM, they should learn to use KBM Can you see how Microsoft, maker of the xbox, might not share your opinion?

But Microsoft also makes Microsoft Mouse and Microsoft Keyboard!

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#268

Post by jasonladuke0311 »

serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

> Auto-fire is trivial to detect

How is this done? Input rate variability or something?

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#269

Post by nix0n »

US-based HN readers will know the experience of going to Best buy or Microcenter and having them offer you a warranty plan on your new controller.

The official Xbox controller is the one thing I've ever bought that it's worth getting the warranty on.

Anyone thinking that M$ plans to sell one controller per Xbox, is overestimating the reliability of those controllers.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#270

Post by kipchak »

solardev wrote: post #140
serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

OK, maybe I'm biased here as a PC gamer who frequently uses a controller... but why not just allow both? Some games like Gears of War on Xbox already do this. Others, like Fortnite, offer crossplay and just show a symbol over each player's head. Do mouse and keyboard players have an advantage? Sure. So do players with bigger TVs or Series X graphics or less worn controllers or the Elite controller. Big deal? The PC e…

It can also go the other way, for example in Apex which supports both controller is currently considered stronger due to high aim assist, with a good chunk of pro players switching to controller.
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