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Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

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Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#371

Post by ilyt »

sltkr wrote: post #158
ilyt wrote: post #11

> To help ensure messages you send to Gmail accounts are delivered as expected, you should set up either SPF or DKIM for your domain. But spammers already do that, why would enforcing that even help ?

I think the explanation is a little incomplete, but it makes sense if you expand the explanation a bit. What really happens is this: when GMail receives a lot of email from domain xyzzy.com, and a lot of it seems to spam (either it's marked spam explicitly by the recipient, or maybe Google uses some weird AI or whatever to identify messages as spam) then GMail will start marking email from that domain as spam. Obviou…

[dead]

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#372

Post by withinboredom »

vntok wrote: post #337
withinboredom wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the definition of spam. Unsolicited email with no way to revoke consent. Your user’s recipients should be able to revoke consent whenever they feel like it. If they can’t reply to the email, or unsubscribe, and the only choice to revoke consent is to mark an email as spam … you are sending spam.

No, it is not. You're missing a few key qualifiers that will depend on the country but generally include the notion of "bulk" email (thus directly excluding transactional emails). A couple examples of such nuancing qualifiers: - "unless prior permission has been obtained or unless there is a pre-existing commercial relationship between the parties" (UK) - "for the purposes of direct marketing" (EU) You may read this…

"thus directly excluding transactional emails"

I'm not excluding transactional emails because to someone who doesn't want your email ... it is not transactional.

You are making a bunch of leaps of logic:

1. The person you are emailing is the same person using your service.

2. The person you are emailing consents to you emailing them about your service.

Consent can be withdrawn at any time, it doesn't matter if it is "transactional" or not, "legally spam" or not. This is just basic human decency and if you cannot follow it ... then this is why we need laws, I guess.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#373

Post by josephg »

pests wrote: post #243
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #155

> we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. (Edit: Also, everything requiring a notification - by e-mail if they…

NextDoor is the absolute fucking worst with this. They sign you up to 10+ lists each in over 9+ categories that results in what feels like 100 different "notification types". Unsubscribing from an email just unsubscribes from that one list. They don't show any other lists or categories (or imply there are more) during this process. Once you login you are greeted with a multi-page disaster to manually untoggle each of…

Why do you bother fighting to unsubscribe properly with a company like that? I have a rule: I will try 1 time to legitimately unsubscribe, using the normal flow. If you keep sending me email after that, I will mark every email you send as spam and my email provider will stop delivering your mail.

I started doing this years ago after watching a talk by some Gmail devs on how they think of spam. They said they internally - controversially - redefined spam to be any email the user doesn’t want to receive. Well guess what? I don’t want to receive shitty marketing emails after I unsubscribe. If you send them to me, I’ll get you listed as a spammer.

I encourage everyone else to do the same thing. Life is too short to put up with this crap.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#374

Post by JimDabell »

wl wrote: post #142
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's transactional email - so generally speaking it's not a subscription list that recipients are on per se. This is in line with the CAN SPAM guidance (although that is a US law it's good guidance to follow globally). Also it requires senders to actually implement it, which is not possible to confirm. Although we could add a catch all service that does this automatically, which I think we'll do.

As someone who gets tons of transactional email I didn't sign up for (wrong address), please do implement your catch-all service and make unsubscribe mechanisms mandatory. If I can't stop it, I mark it as the spam it is, which can't be great for deliverability.

There’s nothing to unsubscribe from if it’s transactional email. You aren’t on a mailing list. You can’t be removed from a non-existent list you aren’t on.

Are you asking to be blacklisted from all future transactional email from a particular service? That’s something very different to being unsubscribed. You’re asking to be added to a list, permanently.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#375

Post by janandonly »

During the pandemic era, I would use my Gmail account to send emails to people who signed up for an on-line museum tour that I held over Zoom.

I was shocked to find out that maybe 1/3 of all recipients had to find my emails in their SPAM box. Eventually, I paid for a service that allows to send SMS in bulk so that I could inform people to check their e-mail and spam box for the login details.

I hope these new measurers will mean that less email is earmark as spam. The fact that is sent out 300 mails with identical text and multiple links in it, is in no way a sign that it is spam.

It got so bad in facts that some people reported not even seeing my mails in their spam box (or, many older folks don't know how to find/open their spam folders). So eventually, I asked them to send a mail to me first, to which I would simply reply.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#376

Post by pcdoodle »

janandonly wrote: post #375

During the pandemic era, I would use my Gmail account to send emails to people who signed up for an on-line museum tour that I held over Zoom. I was shocked to find out that maybe 1/3 of all recipients had to find my emails in their SPAM box. Eventually, I paid for a service that allows to send SMS in bulk so that I could inform people to check their e-mail and spam box for the login details. I hope these new measure…

It got to the point for us when a customer with gmail would ask for an update about their order with us, we couldn't get an email back in front of them.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#377

Post by aembleton »

autoexec wrote: post #331
zo1 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously don't get why we can't have some sort of licensing authority for this type of thing. Maybe they issue you a secret key to include in email headers, or put your entire domain on some sort of whitelist. And complaints get handled by a human to confirm that it's not a "oh I don't like this, or I don't remember signing up for this" non-sense complaint that would get you blocked or have your license revoked wi…

You should try starting one. You'd just need to work with every email provider on the planet (including people running personal email servers) and convince them to let you decide for them what is spam or not, get them to implement a massive list of IPs/domains to whitelist on their servers, get them to let you edit that list whenever new mass mailers sign up for your "We're totally not spam" service, and then get the…

> You'd just need to work with every email provider

Why would you need to do that? Just work with those that'll pay you for it. The others won't care as they'll just ignore the header.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#378

Post by gregorvand »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #155

> we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. (Edit: Also, everything requiring a notification - by e-mail if they…

It’s fair to say any traditional email provider will still struggle to prevent this ‘legit spam’. We took a different approach at mailpass.io where we assume most of the messages are not important for the majority of inbound email. We suggest giving it a go for then forgetting / not caring about whether unsubscribe actually works

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#379

Post by wl »

JimDabell wrote: post #374
wl wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who gets tons of transactional email I didn't sign up for (wrong address), please do implement your catch-all service and make unsubscribe mechanisms mandatory. If I can't stop it, I mark it as the spam it is, which can't be great for deliverability.

There’s nothing to unsubscribe from if it’s transactional email. You aren’t on a mailing list. You can’t be removed from a non-existent list you aren’t on. Are you asking to be blacklisted from all future transactional email from a particular service? That’s something very different to being unsubscribed. You’re asking to be added to a list, permanently.

Most of these transactional messages are associated with customer accounts. They absolutely can remove email addresses from those accounts. The problem isn't emailed receipts from typing in your email address at a brick and mortar checkout or "guest" checkout on an online store.

As I was writing this message, Florida Power and Light sent me yet another "transactional" message I can't unsubscribe from because they're under the mistaken impression I'm their customer.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#380

Post by gregorvand »

autoexec wrote: post #323
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #155

> we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. (Edit: Also, everything requiring a notification - by e-mail if they…

> I hope they make it really strict. I'm sick of companies that send you spam ("newsletters") just because you interacted with them once, then when you unsubscribe, you get unsubscribed from that one list, so they keep spamming you just with a slightly different newsletter type. Never interact with spam. Unsubscribing just tells spammers that your email address is actively being checked, and that you're the kind of p…

At mailpass.io we tried to embed some of these ideas straight away. Easy to ignore certain domains. Easy to delete all messages from a specific domain without sending any kind of tracking this was done
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