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Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

robkhenderson.com

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Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#181

Post by boppo1 »

JanSt wrote: post #132
indigo945 wrote: post #101

> When I was growing up in foster homes, or making minimum wage as a > dishwasher, or serving in the military, I never heard words like “cultural > appropriation” or “gendered” or “heteronormative.” > > Working class people could not tell you what these terms mean. But if you > visit an elite university, you’ll find plenty of affluent people who will > eagerly explain them to you. I figured out as soon as I saw the l…

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

>cultural appropriation

As I remember it, this really took off in popular culture after native americans got sick of dude-bros/girls wearing war bonnets to music festivals. Around 2012-2014 it was a hugely popular piece. When 'cultural appropriation' came up then I mildly agreed with the sentiment because the look was pretty openly disrespectful.

And then it expanded like kudzu until digital hairstyles became off-limits:

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2020/11/30/21734131/ani...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=8997844...

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#182

Post by boppo1 »

doublespanner wrote: post #148
JanSt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

Americans tied up so much of their image of a "good person" with not being racist, that when in environments with no way to demonstrate that they are not racist, they had to invent new racist things to oppose.

As a millennial, racism was taught to me in k-12 as being perhaps one of the fundamental forces of evil in the world; kind of an analog to what Christian students learn about Satan. As a result, people in my generation have moral codes that revolve around it, sometimes in twisted ways. Someone gets hit by a car but hey were racist? Had it coming.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#183

Post by ethanbond »

doublespanner wrote: post #147
jyounker wrote: post #142

The poster's entire article is based on a strawman. The "Defund The Police" movement has very specific and very well documented goals: Use police only for law-enforcement, and use specialized responders for non-law enforcement interactions. For example, you send mental health specialists when someone is threatening suicide. This reallocates funding from the police to more capable responders, but allows the remaining…

The whole point is that the defund the police movement is a signal taken up by people not directly effected by the issue; not a comment on the details or potential effectiveness of the concept...

So "the whole point" is that people are only allowed to support policies they would be directly aided by, or disagree with policies they are directly injured by?

Huh, super mysterious why this line of reasoning is popular amongst people who want the world to remain the same.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#184

Post by chongli »

cmcaleer wrote: post #124
neilk wrote: post #106

Let’s consider the contrary. Do poor people sometimes hold highly questionable beliefs, promulgated by institutions, and does professing these beliefs in expensive and flamboyant ways confer status? Religion ticks all these boxes. In some contexts, so does patriotism, racism, worship of the military, publicly dumping cases of Bud Light, etc etc etc. In some ways, even disdain for education is a sort of expensive stat…

Defund the police was an inherently absurd idea. It especially bothers me that proponents gave no reasonable explanation for what happens next after defunding[1] and many seemed to have no appetite for reform. Portland was kind of a poster child for this. Just look at how things have changed after their budget slash. - Police staffing levels are at critical levels [2] - Violent crime has shot way up in 2021 (along wi…

When have zeitgeist moments like that ever led to thoughtful, sober, laser-focused and effective reforms? In my experience, reform takes years and decades to build a consensus. You can’t “catch lightning in a bottle” and call it a day.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#185

Post by TerryGrampl »

throw6746 wrote: post #157
TerryGrampl wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

At least it was easy to see you had no interest to present factual arguments and just regurgitated what you read online. For somebody asking empathy about your childhood, you seem to give very little to others.

My empathy is with women who are being forced to give up their female-only spaces, where they are the most vulnerable, to include men who demand to be there too. It's unacceptable regardless of if these men had difficult childhoods or not. I wouldn't do it, most other men wouldn't either, so neither should they.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#186

Post by thfuran »

littlestymaar wrote: post #165
fieldcny wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in no way conservative, but I think you are missing the point. There are sets of liberal and conservative beliefs that are held by the wealthy and powerful that are detrimental to the powerless and poor. He cites the liberal set, maybe he is a conservative and that’s his bias or maybe because there is an inbuilt hypocrisy in some of them, ultimately it doesn’t matter because the point stands on its own and one s…

I think you are the one missing the point: it's not that this post has a conservative bias (every text necessarily has these kinds of bias, and that's fine). The problem with this post is that it is only here as an argument against liberal ideas that he doesn't like, and as such it's entirely driven by bad faith. Then sure there may be some elements of truth sprinkled every now and then, but every piece of propaganda…

>it is only here as an argument against liberal ideas that he doesn't like, and as such it's entirely driven by bad faith.

Are you suggesting that it is inherently bad faith to argue against a position that one doesn't like?

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#187

Post by steveBK123 »

JanSt wrote: post #161
traverseda wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strongest form of that argument I know about is really about how capitalism is eating the world. It's a common refrain that "white people have no culture", but if you replace "white people" with "globalized capitalism" it starts making more sense. Everyone drinks the same can of coke and eats the same grocery store sushi. If you look closer at the woke crowd you'll see that grocery store sushi is pretty "white".…

That's a really weak argument. 1) It has nothing to do with racism but uses the accusation of someone being racist as a tool to push an agenda. 2) Japan still makes good sushi. Supermarket sushi has not destroyed japanese sushi culture 3) I'd argue that capitalism has made the world better in pretty much every aspect. You could argue that capitalism has destroyed the environment, but the fact is that leftist countrie…

Yeah it's such a garbage phrase & concept.

It's like goldilocks.. you can't like another cultural too much (cultural appropriation) or too little (racism). Often the statement is made by people who aren't even from the supposedly wronged culture. Please let me know how much and in what manner I am allowed to appreciate and participate in other cultures, Mr Cultural Gatekeeper.

America is great because people come here, participate in and enhance the existing culture.

My grandmother loved Chinese takeout cuz she was a Jew who grew up in NYC. My Southeast Asian in-laws love Italian food and always insist on taking us out to it. Also, hate to break it to people, but Southeast Asia has some really crazy localized Italian dishes involving ketchup & hot dogs.

Yesterday for breakfast I had greek yogurt.. from a company founded by a Greek! Last night I had leftover Thai (made by Thais!) and stopped by a Jewish bakery owned by Muslims for dessert. Had a black&white cookie with some baklava.

My parents who live outside of any big city, who have never been to Asia, now frequently go out for Pho. A couple generations ago Vietnam was synonymous with "bad war". For a GenZ American it's now synonymous with "good food".

What's not to love here?

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#188

Post by langsoul-com »

There's a book called "The Tragedy of the Virtuous Justine" that really exemplifies how luxury beliefs are luxury because they have nothing to lose by adopting them.

In contrast, the less well off stand to lose so much more.

Take plant based meats to save the world belief. They cost double or quadruple the price of normal meat. Given how people live pay check to pay check, living out that ideal will cause them to suffer.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#189

Post by ameister14 »

jyounker wrote: post #139
RubberbandSoul wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defunding (i.e. demilitarizing) Redefining words in order to win arguments. Nice. Defunding means exactly that. I know this because that is what happened to the police forces that were defunded. Not entirely defunded, but they ended up with less money in their budget. > the typical day-to-day work for a police officer doesn't require violence or the threat of violence Says who? Are you a cop? Do you have cops in th…

> Redefining words in order to win arguments. Nice. Defunding means exactly > that. I know this because that is what happened to the police forces that > were defunded. Not entirely defunded, but they ended up with less money > in their budget. The poster is not redefining the term. The "Defund The Police" movement has very specific and very well documented goals: Use police only for law-enforcement, and use speciali…

The "defund the police" movement was not that well organized but I agree, they do have very specific and very well documented goals: the end of policing. They went hand-in-hand with the prison abolitionist movement.

I get that you may not want to eliminate police, but I assure you, a large number of the people at the center of these movements do want that.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#190

Post by TerryGrampl »

zigman1 wrote: post #137
TerryGrampl wrote: post #119

This reminds me of an interesting piece I read last month, which looks at one particular luxury belief that is especially divisive right now, and criticizes it with regards to class: https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/09/25/trans-the-new-ideol... Like those described in the article above, this is very much a middle-class movement whose proponents have seized the opportunity to sneer at working-class people as bigoted…

> seized the opportunity to sneer at working-class people as bigoted, stupid and reactionary This is incredibly ignorant view which does not understand the trauma someone can endure when not being allowed or experience not only discrimination, but physical abuse and threats for being who he or she feels is. I wonder if people said the same thing when screaming for equal rights or other things related to racism and ho…

What about the trauma of vulnerable women who have to suffer the effects of this particular luxury belief?
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