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Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

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Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#131

Post by TerryGrampl »

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #121
TerryGrampl wrote: post #119

This reminds me of an interesting piece I read last month, which looks at one particular luxury belief that is especially divisive right now, and criticizes it with regards to class: https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/09/25/trans-the-new-ideol... Like those described in the article above, this is very much a middle-class movement whose proponents have seized the opportunity to sneer at working-class people as bigoted…

Tell that to the trans people I've met who were physically beaten and mentally abused by authoritarian parents, unable to move out or find secure housing due to burnout, mental health disabilities, and a lack of aid or sustainable jobs, in both Western and third-world countries.

[flagged]

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#132

Post by JanSt »

indigo945 wrote: post #101

> When I was growing up in foster homes, or making minimum wage as a > dishwasher, or serving in the military, I never heard words like “cultural > appropriation” or “gendered” or “heteronormative.” > > Working class people could not tell you what these terms mean. But if you > visit an elite university, you’ll find plenty of affluent people who will > eagerly explain them to you. I figured out as soon as I saw the l…

cultural appropriation

As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or....

I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#133

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

surrTurr wrote: post #114

On the point of success and the rich believing it is just luck whilst the working-class beliefs it's hard work: Maybe both is true. Becoming successful in working class jobs often *does* require hard work, whilst becoming successful in upper-class jobs depends more on other factors such as luck. For example, to become a great construction worker, you need physical strength, stamina, and a strong work ethic, as the jo…

A high-paying job in finance or tech is not what rich means.

Rich means ownership and rent-seeking. It means dominating some part of your culture to the extent that you can force your will and desires on significant numbers of people - often against their personal interests.

One of the best examples is the health insurance industry, which bankrupts half a million Americans every year - usually people who have been paying insurance premiums for decades, but their money is somehow channelled to shareholders instead of providing care when they need it.

If you're not profiting from an operation like this on a mass scale, you're not truly rich.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#134

Post by dustingetz »

leereeves wrote: post #27
chancemehmu wrote: post #6

Reminds me of one of my favourite quotes by Huxley: "If you’re to do anything reasonable in this world, you must have a class of people who are secure, safe from public opinion, safe from poverty, leisured, not compelled to waste their time in the imbecile routines that go by the name of Honest Work. You must have a class of which the members can think and, within the obvious limits, do what they please. You must hav…

It sounds like you're talking about an aristocracy, and the quote even uses that word, so I wonder: do you think the aristocracy is responsible for most of the progress in the world? I'd argue rather that, historically, progress has generally involved removing or disempowering the aristocracy.

hard to go to university for mathematics when you’re working the factory at age 12 alongside your parents. remember, life is “nasty brutish and short”

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#135

Post by nomilk »

> Conspicuous consumption - in economics, the consumer practice of buying goods in greater quantity/price/quality than practical [1]

Luxury beliefs sound like conspicuous consumption for beliefs. The analogy also works in that some people "boast" of having certain beliefs in the same way some people might think very highly of themselves by, say, wearing loud brand name clothing. In both cases, others (perhaps with more taste) may not be as impressed.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#136

Post by RubberbandSoul »

gizmo wrote: post #129
cmcaleer wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defund the police was an inherently absurd idea. It especially bothers me that proponents gave no reasonable explanation for what happens next after defunding[1] and many seemed to have no appetite for reform. Portland was kind of a poster child for this. Just look at how things have changed after their budget slash. - Police staffing levels are at critical levels [2] - Violent crime has shot way up in 2021 (along wi…

Your comment is pretty incendiary so I won't go through it point by point, but I'd like to emphasize the distinction between defunding (i.e. demilitarizing) and abolishing the police. Abolishing the police altogether is more of a utopian goal and very few people think society can function today without some kind of police. That said, the typical day-to-day work for a police officer doesn't require violence or the thr…

> defunding (i.e. demilitarizing)

Redefining words in order to win arguments. Nice. Defunding means exactly that. I know this because that is what happened to the police forces that were defunded. Not entirely defunded, but they ended up with less money in their budget.

> the typical day-to-day work for a police officer doesn't require violence or the threat of violence

Says who? Are you a cop? Do you have cops in the family? Are you a law enforcement expert? Do you have any source or statistic whatsoever to back that up?

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#137

Post by zigman1 »

TerryGrampl wrote: post #119

This reminds me of an interesting piece I read last month, which looks at one particular luxury belief that is especially divisive right now, and criticizes it with regards to class: https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/09/25/trans-the-new-ideol... Like those described in the article above, this is very much a middle-class movement whose proponents have seized the opportunity to sneer at working-class people as bigoted…

> seized the opportunity to sneer at working-class people as bigoted, stupid and reactionary

This is incredibly ignorant view which does not understand the trauma someone can endure when not being allowed or experience not only discrimination, but physical abuse and threats for being who he or she feels is. I wonder if people said the same thing when screaming for equal rights or other things related to racism and homophobia. That it is only opportunity to sneer at working-class people as bigoted, stupid and reactionary.

The approach might not always be the best, but at the end people want others to be what they really are, no one is screaming to shot or lynch anyone.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#138

Post by bryanrasmussen »

indigo945 wrote: post #101

> When I was growing up in foster homes, or making minimum wage as a > dishwasher, or serving in the military, I never heard words like “cultural > appropriation” or “gendered” or “heteronormative.” > > Working class people could not tell you what these terms mean. But if you > visit an elite university, you’ll find plenty of affluent people who will > eagerly explain them to you. I figured out as soon as I saw the l…

[flagged]

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#139

Post by jyounker »

RubberbandSoul wrote: post #136
gizmo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is pretty incendiary so I won't go through it point by point, but I'd like to emphasize the distinction between defunding (i.e. demilitarizing) and abolishing the police. Abolishing the police altogether is more of a utopian goal and very few people think society can function today without some kind of police. That said, the typical day-to-day work for a police officer doesn't require violence or the thr…

> defunding (i.e. demilitarizing) Redefining words in order to win arguments. Nice. Defunding means exactly that. I know this because that is what happened to the police forces that were defunded. Not entirely defunded, but they ended up with less money in their budget. > the typical day-to-day work for a police officer doesn't require violence or the threat of violence Says who? Are you a cop? Do you have cops in th…

> Redefining words in order to win arguments. Nice. Defunding means exactly

> that. I know this because that is what happened to the police forces that

> were defunded. Not entirely defunded, but they ended up with less money

> in their budget.

The poster is not redefining the term.

The "Defund The Police" movement has very specific and very well documented goals: Use police only for law-enforcement, and use specialized responders for non-law enforcement interactions. For example, you send mental health specialists when someone is threatening suicide. This will reduce funding for the police, but it also reduces the police's workload.

Is the movement poorly named? Yes. Is their goal to eliminate police? Absolutely not.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#140

Post by sokoloff »

Animats wrote: post #95

"Class", by Paul Fussell, is a fun read. It's from 1981 and reads like a period piece today, but it's still a good read. Somehow, "Black Lives Matter" morphed into "Defund the Police", which turned into a joke. It derailed any serious effort to fix the real problem of cops shooting too many black people. Not quite sure how that happened. The hard work thing seems to be the reverse of the criticism usually leveled in…

I got to this point in my life (working for a living as an engineer/manager) in large part by help from my parents (public school teachers) and they from their parents (coal mining and steelworking).

My kids will get the same type of help such as we’re able to provide it.

My parents’ hard work has a payoff for me and my wife’s/my hard work will very likely have a payoff for our kids.

This is a feature, not a bug, IMO.

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