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People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

sciencedaily.com

301–310 of 386 posts

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#301

I'm not even sure what passes for "autism" these days. Back in the late 90s I helped out at a tiny charity that helped out family's of severely disabled kids. They would be utterly dependent on their parents for everything and needed constant supervision. Almost all were non-verbal. Due to the fact that many of them had genetic conditions, they had a bunch of health problems and also looked different to other kids th…

Autism exists on a multi-dimensional spectrum. Dimensions include restricted interests, anxiety, social awkwardness, difficulty reading faces, sensory processing issues, unusual motor of verbal behaviour, among many others. You can think of these characteristics among all people as being distributed like bell curves, and we use the word autism to describe people who are on the tail ends of these. This can also be described as "having autistic traits".

These characteristics tend to be correlated, as well as with neurological differences. But it's important to remember that they are blurry distributions, and also that every autistic person will lie in different points along these characteristics. It's even somewhat conceivable for two people to be autistic and share no autistic traits.

Autism is not by itself a pathology. However, if an autistic trait is especially pronounced, it might cause clinically significant impediment to a person's ability to take care of themselves or integrate with society (especially modern society — more on that later). We can then speak of ASD, or Autism Spectrum Disorder, which is a clinically recognised diagnosis. Many people with ASD also have a learning disability, but certainly not all.

While many difficulties autistic people face are intrinsic to autism, a significant proportion also come from stigma. Modern society is conformist, especially in the working world, and the natural needs, behaviours, and mannerisms of autistic people can conflict with expectations of professionalism or convention. So, high-functioning autistic people have a tendency to consciously or unconsciously learn to imitate neurotypical behaviour, sometimes at great expense in terms of energy and self-identity. This is called "masking".

It's a matter of definition whether we use the word "autism" to refer to this cluster of traits or the clinically significant disorder. Indeed, I think the word used to refer exclusively to the disorder, and it remains controversial. Many people, especially carers of people with low-functioning ASD, feel that saying autism is not an illness trivialises the genuine difficulties they experience. I am very sympathetic to this, but ultimately, I think that without this word "autism", many otherwise fully independently functioning people who fall under the umbrella are left with a void to explain their feeling of difference and social exclusion, and it is bad for society as well, as it pushes autistic people to suppress traits that could potentially be extremely valuable. So, I advocate for this autism vs ASD distinction. But reasonable people can disagree.

I hope you found this useful as a primer on autism, or at least of this autistic person's understanding of it!

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once walked up to a woman in a parking lot at night while she was putting groceries away (we were coming out of a grocery store). She turns and says "please get away from me" in a way that made it obvious she was irrationally fearful, no idea why but I can guess. Most people would not have reacted in that manner. My point is this: Go tell the victims of dog attacks they're being busy-bodies by wanting dogs leashed…

I doubt the victims are. Its those people wandering through parks having this fantasy of victimisation to drive their 'compassionate' impulse to police others. If you wander around the world engaged in these fantasies, and police everyone around you such, then you're creating a nightmare for people to live in. Do you imagine teenagers attacking people, and then keep them out of parks? They're vastly more dangerous th…

The term for this is whataboutism.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, this is about unleashed animals in the park. It's not about trees, it's not about weapons (although most parks also have prohibitions against weapons), or teenagers. It's about dogs and why people want them to be leashed.

Joel Spoelsky coined a term years ago, architecture astronaut.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/04/21/dont-let-architect...

> When you go too far up, abstraction-wise, you run out of oxygen. Sometimes smart thinkers just don’t know when to stop, and they create these absurd, all-encompassing, high-level pictures of the universe that are all good and fine, but don’t actually mean anything at all.

> These are the people I call Architecture Astronauts.

It's kind of like those people who didn't believe covid existed until their family members started dying of it. It's really easy to hold such views when the idea of a dog attacking is an abstract idea. When there isn't a real understanding of the level of danger an attacking dog has.

What I'm saying is that you're holding this opinion due to your ignorance.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#303

I'm not even sure what passes for "autism" these days. Back in the late 90s I helped out at a tiny charity that helped out family's of severely disabled kids. They would be utterly dependent on their parents for everything and needed constant supervision. Almost all were non-verbal. Due to the fact that many of them had genetic conditions, they had a bunch of health problems and also looked different to other kids th…

> Fast forward to this century. I've had full conversations with successful people, who announce that they're autistic.

People often change a lot over the years. I know people who had serious difficulties as a child who now function "normally" within society.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you own a pit bull by any chance?

I don't own a dog. And as I've said elsewhere, this really isnt about dogs. It's about whether the appropriate response to rare events of danger, imagined in abstract circumstances, should be met with 'fantasy compassion' where people go around policing each other. An unleashed dog in a park is safe as people in the park, indeed, much more so. More people are attacked by other people in parks than by dogs. If we're g…

I am the OP.

It was about dogs.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to know how compassion was used to cause the holocaust. But I think I see. I think I see your mistaking compassion for the self as compassion for the other. It’s easy to cause a holocaust if you cause people to only have compassion for themselves or their own kind. It’s very hard to create a holocaust if you have a universal compassion for all humans. So your answer is “well let’s get rid of all compassi…

No no, compassion for the other. You see the germans imagined the jews a threat (and of course some were, as some of all people are -- just as some dogs are dangerous). Now all you need to do is make headlines of all the times a jewish person murdered someone and the like. Indeed, imagine it on youtube: all these videos of jewish criminals. Now you have waves of compassion for the victims of these criminals. It's tri…

You see, you don’t even know what compassion is. if people were able to believe that the Jews were a threat then they were not compassionate. They were afraid. And we can be sure if they started killing people they were not compassionate. So you still did not explain how compassionate people can kill other people.

Fear has no place in compassion.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean. I remember one time I got off the plane in Italy and I was walking with my girlfriend to customs. At one point we branched off from all the other passengers and she was like "hey we're going the wrong way, everyone is heading there". And I said nope this is the EU passengers exit, look at the sign. She couldn't believe it was right because the plane was full of others from our EU country. All th…

this effect seems to be especially true in airports. they seem to particularly inspire dumb herd behaviour. perhaps there's an increase in perceived danger leading to a stronger desire for safety in numbers? another example: queueing to board the plane. other than to fit in, why on earth would I stand there and compete to spend more time in a sweaty uncomfortable seat packed with 400 other people? plus, if you get on…

No need to involve hypoxia, which should subside quickly at sea level. People are tired, stressed, and many have been drinking on the plane.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#309
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this effect seems to be especially true in airports. they seem to particularly inspire dumb herd behaviour. perhaps there's an increase in perceived danger leading to a stronger desire for safety in numbers? another example: queueing to board the plane. other than to fit in, why on earth would I stand there and compete to spend more time in a sweaty uncomfortable seat packed with 400 other people? plus, if you get on…

No need to involve hypoxia, which should subside quickly at sea level. People are tired, stressed, and many have been drinking on the plane.

In Europe most people don't really drink anymore on flights because it's no longer free on most airlines.

Which is a really good thing IMO.

Re: People with autism less likely to succumb to bystander effect, research finds

#310

I'm not even sure what passes for "autism" these days. Back in the late 90s I helped out at a tiny charity that helped out family's of severely disabled kids. They would be utterly dependent on their parents for everything and needed constant supervision. Almost all were non-verbal. Due to the fact that many of them had genetic conditions, they had a bunch of health problems and also looked different to other kids th…

The article uses it as a synonym for neurodiverse people.
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